Hansard: NCOP: Introducion of Provincila Budgets & Expenditure Review 2005-06 to 2011-12 / Heritage Day: “Celebrate Craft / International Day of Democracy
House: National Council of Provinces
Date of Meeting: 15 Sep 2009
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Wednesday, 16 September 2009 Take: 393
WEDNESDAY, 16 SEPTEMBER 2009
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
__________________________
The Council met at 14:05.
The Chairperson took the chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
NOTICES OF MOTION
Afrikaans:
Mnr W F FABER: Voorsitter, ek gee kennis dat ek sal voorstel:
Dat die Raad -
(1) kennis neem dat die Suid-Afrikaanse Protea Krieketspan die beste span in Wêreldkrieket op die Internasionale Krieketfederasie se ranglys is;
(2) die Protea-krieketspan alle sterkte toewens met die komende Internasionale Kampioene Trofeëreeks wat aanstaande Dinsdag begin, waar die Proteas teen Sri Lanka sal deelneem;
(3) verder kennis neem dat ʼn Sharks-rugbytrui met die Discovery-ruimtetuig na die Internasionale Ruimtestasie geneem is – ruimtevaarders mag een persoonlike besitting saam met hulle na die Ruimtestasie neem op so 'n tog – en die Amerikaanse ruimtevaarder Patrick Kennedy is 'n groot Sharks-rugbyondersteuner en het besluit om sy Sharks-ondersteunerstrui saam te neem – dit is dus die eerste rugbytrui wat die ruimte in is;
(4) ook die Sharks-rugbyspan baie gelukwens met hulle tweede oorwinning teen die Blou Bulle op Loftus Versveld in die Curriebekerreeks; en
(5) die Sharks-rugbyspan alle sterkte toewens met hulle kragmeting teen die Vrystaat Cheetahs Saterdag in Durban.
English:
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I am sure you are aware that we have two types of motions: A notice of motion and a motion without notice. Are you moving a notice of motion now? Is that what you are moving?
Mr W F FABER: Correct, Mr Chair.
Mr M J R DE VILLIERS
Mr W F FABER
Afrikaans:
Mnr M J R DE VILLIERS: Agb Voorsitter, ek gee kennis dat ek sal voorstel:
Dat die Raad-
(1) kennis neem van die berig in die Burger van 1 September 2009 waarin mnr Tony Ehrenreich van Cosatu beweer dat mev Helen Zille, Premier van die Wes-Kaap, en haar gevolg haar besoek aan Duitsland misbruik het om haar familie in Duitsland te besoek;
(2) verder kennis neem dat mnr Ehrenreich en Cosatu kwaadwillig mev Zille van slinkse streke, onbetroubare gedrag, misbruik, wanadministrasie en korrupsie beskuldig;
(3) ook kennis neem dat mnr Ehrenreich en Cosatu die amp van Premier en mev Zille se naam as lid van die wetgewer oneer aandoen en beledig; en
(4) mnr Ehrenreich en Cosatu versoek om met bewyse vir sy bewering na vore te kom, so nie, om in die openbaar sy en Cosatu se verskoning aan mev Zille aan te bied vir ongetoetse en ondeurdagte uitlatings.
Mnr H B GROENEWALD
Mnr M J R DE VILLIERS
Afrikaans:
Mnr H B GROENEWALD: Mnr die Voorsitter, ek gee kennis dat ek sal voorstel:
Dat die Raad-
(1) kennis neem dat die probleme wat Eskom nou reeds vir ʼn onaanvaarbaar lang tyd ondervind, asook die feit dat toenemend meer bewyse aan die lig kom dat Eskom herhaaldelike waarskuwings rakende die potensiële omvang van die krisis blatant en herhaaldelik oor ʼn tydperk van etlike jare geïgnoreer het, rede tot ernstige kommer is en 'n wesenlike bedreiging vir die ekonomiese toestand in ons land as geheel is;
(2) voorts kennis neem dat–
(a) werk aan die kragstasie tans in aanbou by Ellisras dreig om heeltemal tot stilstand te kom vanweë die feit dat kontrakteurs geen betaling ontvang het vir kontrakwerk wat reeds afgehandel is nie;
(b) hierdie skokkende toedrag van sake vererger word deur die feit dat Eskom, ten spyte van hul klaaglike vertoning, die arrogansie het om hul hoof-uitvoerende beampte, wat volgens alle aanduidings na regte ontslaan behoort te word, te vergoed met 'n skandalige salarisverhoging van meer as R1 miljoen, asook 'n totaal onverdiende bonus;
(c) die verskoning dat so ʼn verhoging markverwant is, 'n belediging is in die gesig van elke belastingbetaler wat die koste van hierdie uitspattigheid dra, maar nie markverwante dienste gegun word nie;
(3) glo dat sulke optrede ʼn mens noop om tot die gevolgtrekking te kom dat Eskom hoegenaamd geen begrip of insig het van die omvang en impak van die huidige wêreldwye ekonomiese krisis nie; en
(4) gevolglik daarop aandring dat ʼn dringende ondersoek na die aangeleentheid geloods word.
English:
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order, hon members! Just to remind you that a notice of motion is one and half minutes and if you exceed that then I'll have to stop you. Members must just understand that, please.
Mr D A WORTH
End of take
Mnr H B GROENEWALD
Mr D A WORTH: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that I shall move on behalf of the DA on the next sitting day of the House:
That the House-
(1) congratulates the Springbok Rugby Team, Amabhokobhoko, on winning the 2009 Tri-Nations Series last Saturday;
(2) congratulates the coach, Peter de Villiers and the captain, John Smit and his team on their outstanding performance throughout the series and on their triumphant victory; and
(3) congratulates the Homeless Street Soccer Team, who won the AC Milan City Trophy for the first time.
Prince M M M ZULU
End of take
Mr D A WORTH
IsiZulu:
Umntwana M M M ZULU: Mhlonishwa Sihlalo,ngiphakamisa ngaphandle kwesaziso:
Ukuthi lo Mkhandlu-
(1) uzwakalisa ukukhalela izintombi zakithi ezimpisholo ezazilaphaya emzini weNkosi noma emzini weNdlovukazi kaMsweli, la kwalimala khona uMbali Mhlongo waseThekwini kwaNongoma kanye noNoxolo Mbatha waseHluhluwe, lapho intombi ezincane esizweni samaZulu ziyaye ziyalwe khona yiNkosi minyaka yonke;
(2) uthi-ke uzwakalisa ukukhala emindenini yalezintokazi zaseNingizimu Afrika, izimbali zesizwe ngokwendlula kwazo emhlabeni ngoba lapha kwakuzoyalwa izingane ngalolubhubhana olukhona lwengculaza ukuthi zikwazi ukuzithiba ukuya ocansini ngoba njengesizwe esimpisholo akufuneki ukulalana nje ngaphambi kokuba kushadwe. Ngiyabonga
English:
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: In the light of the objection, the motion may not be proceeded with and the motion without notice will now become a notice of a motion.
Mr M J R DE VILLIERS
End of take
Prince M M M ZULU
Afrikaans:
Mnr M J R DE VILLIERS: Agb Voorsitter, u het vinnig oorgegaan na voorstelle sonder kennisgewing. Ek het nog twee kennisgewings van voorstel. Ek sal berus by u beslissing, maar dan het ek ook twee voorstelle sonder kennisgewing.
English
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Have you finished with the motion?
Mr M J R DE VILLIERS: No, I've asked for your permission to move two notices of motion and then I also have two motions without notice.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: No, put one first and then I will call you again for the other one.
Mr M J R DE VILLIERS: Thank you very much.
Afrikaans:
Mnr M J R DE VILLIERS: Ek gee kennis dat ek sal voorstel:
Dat die Huis-
(1) kennis neem van die kommer van die Departement van Gesondheid in verband met die advertensie deur ryk lande om Suid-Afrikaanse dokters te trek;
(2) dat die Raad op Gesondheidsberoepe ...
English:
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon member, you are giving a notice of a motion and we are now dealing with motions without notice. What are you moving?
Mr M J R DE VILLIERS: Chair, I asked for your permission to give notice of a motion first, but also said that I will abide by your ruling. If I should carry on with the motion without notice, then I shall move it.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Move the motion without notice. We are done with notices of motion.
Mr M J R DE VILLIERS: Ok, I have two motions without notice.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Now move the first one, then I will call you for the second one.
Mr M J R DE VILLIERS: Thank you very much, Chairperson.
Mnr M J R DE VILLIERS
End of take
Mnr M J R DE VILLIERS
ACTIONS OF ASA OFFICIALS IN CASTER SEMENYA CONTROVERSY
(Draft Resolution)
Afrikaans:
Mnr M J R DE VILLIERS: Agbare Voorsitter, ek stel sonder kennisgewing voor:
Dat die Raad-
(1) kennis neem dat Atletiek vir Suid-Afrika, ASA, volgens mediaberigte kennis gedra het dat Caster Semenya 'n mediese toestand gehad het wat haar prestasie in gedrang sou bring;
(2) verder kennis neem dat die klaarblyklike toets wat in Pretoria gedoen is, nooit aan die Internasionale Asosiasie van Atletiek Federasies, IAAF, deurgegee is nie;
(3) ook kennis neem dat dr Harold Adams, ASA se spandokter, mnr Leonard Chuene, president van ASA, versoek het om Semenya eerder aan die kompetisie in Duitsland te onttrek; en
(4) 'n beroep op die Minister van Sport en Ontspanning doen om 'n deeglike ondersoek in te stel na die volle situasie waarin Caster Semenya beland het en 'n volledige verslag aan die Raad te voorsien.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: In the light of the objection, the motion may not be proceeded with and, therefore, the motion without notice will now become a notice of a motion.
Mr M J R DE VILLIERS
End of take
Mnr M J R DE VILLIERS
CONGRATULATIONS TO SOUTH AFRICAN FILM-MAKING SCHOOL ON THEIR ACHIEVEMENTS
(Draft Resolution)
Mr M J R DE VILLIERS: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council –
(1) notes that a South African film-making school, Big Fish Digital School of Filmmaking, based at Monash University in Johannesburg, won in the category of Corporate Social Responsibility Programme of the year in the Middle east and Africa;
(2) also notes that this honour was bestowed upon the South African film-making school during a gala ceremony at the 6th Annual International Business Awards in New York;
(3) further notes that organisations and individuals from 27 countires were represented;
(4) recongnises that the school was only started in 2003; and
(5) conveys its best wishes and congratulations to the school and everyone involved in their achievements.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
Mr H B GROENEWALD
End of take
Mr M J R DE VILLIERS
CONDOLENCES ON THE PASSING AWAY OF DOTIE SWART
(Draft Resolution)
Mr H B GROENEWALD: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council-
(1) notes with profound sadness the death of Dotie Swart, wife of
Blackie Swart, DA constituency chairperson of Merafong City, in a tragic road accident this morning; and
(2) conveys its sincerest and heartfelt condolences to Mr Swart and his family during this very difficult time.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
Mrs R M RASMENI
End of take
Mr H B GROENEWALD
CONGRATULATIONS TO THE POLICE AND THE DEPARTMENT OF HOME AFFAIRS FOR CURBING CORRUPTION AND FRAUD
(Draft Resolution)
Mrs R M RASMENI: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council –
(1) notes that on 15 September 2009 the organised crime unit of
the South African Police Services raided a bogus Home
Affairs office in Ghandi Square in Johannesburg, Gauteng, where dozens of illegally produced passports, identity documents and other Home Affairs were confiscated and a man who is believed to be the brother of an immigration official of the Department of Home Affairs was arrested;
(2) also notes that thus far the Department of Home Affairs has dismissed over 120 personnel for corruption and fraud related to the production and sale of passports and identity documents;
(3) takes this opportunity to congratulate the police and the Department of Home affairs for their swift action in curbing corruption in the Department of Home Affairs; and
(4) Calls on the people of South Africa, particularly the personnel in the Department of Home Affairs, to report those among them who continue to produce and sell state documents and thus undermine the security of our nation.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
Mr M H MOKGOBI
End of take
Mrs R N RASMENI
THE SAPS SPECIAL TASK TEAM AND THE AIR WING ARE COMMITTED TO FIGHT CRIME
(Draft Resolution)
Mr M H MOKGOBI: chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council –
(1) commends the South African Police Service for deterring what could have been a cash-in-transit heist at Kameeldrift, Pretoria on 14 September 2009;
(2) acknowledges that the swift reaction by the SAPS special task team and the air wing illustrates police commitment to fight crime and make sure that South Africa becomes unbearable for criminals;
(3) takes this opportunity to wish the police officer who got injured on duty defending the interests of the law-abiding citizens of this country a speedy recovery; and
(4) calls upon members of the community to help the police to intensify its search for the arrest of the other three robbers who fled the scene.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
Mr T D HARRIS
End of take
Mr M H MOKGOBI
WEEK-LONG STRIKE BY SARS EMPLOYEES
(Draft Resolution)
Mr T D HARRIS: Chair, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) takes note of the week-long strike by Sars employees that ran from Monday 7 September 2009 to Friday 11 September 2009;
(2) notes that while noting the right of workers to take industrial action and given that the deadline for manual tax returns by taxpayers is this Friday, 18 September 2009, there is evidence that submission of returns was badly hampered by delays at Sars offices last week;
(3) notes that in addition, several complaints from businesses have been received regarding equipment manufactured in South African plants which could not be loaded, and that other exports were stuck at borders and ports of exit due to the strike action; and
(4) calls on Sars to extend the deadline for the manual submission of tax returns by one week to allow for the burden of the delays on taxpayers, and that the tax authority prioritises its efforts to get Sars operations registered as "essential services" to prevent industrial action from negatively affecting business and taxpayers in future.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of Constitution.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL
End of take
Mr T D HARRIS
PRESIDENTIAL HOTLINE
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council –
(1) notes that Monday, 14 September 2009, the President of the Republic of South Africa, President Gedleyihlekisa Jacob Zuma, launched a presidential hotline, 17737, which is a toll-free number for the people of South Africa to directly inform him about the challenges that they are facing in their communities;
(2) notes that the presidential hotline, which was part of the commitment that President Zuma made during the election campaign and in the state of the nation address, is intended to encourage an all-round improvement in citizen care and liaison and to introduce a culture of putting the citizens first in all spheres of government;
(3) further notes that the presidential hotline will be extended to all provinces and will include liaison officers for each municipality so that the service is taken to local government level, including rural municipalities and districts;
(4) congratulates President Zuma on his innovative initiative and his continued quest to bring government closer to the people and to further inculcate a culture of accountability and the principles of Batho Pele in the Public Service; and
(5) calls on political parties that have started to abuse the number for political pranks, publicity and point-scoring to use this important initiative for our people as intended and in a reasonable manner.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: In the light of the objection, the motion may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice will now become a notice of motion.
Mrs A N D QIKANI
End of take
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL
NEW EASTERN CAPE PROVINCIAL EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE
(Draft Resolution)
Mrs A N D QIKANI: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council –
(1) notes the successful conclusion of the Eastern Cape Provincial Conference of the ANC in East London where a new provincial executive committee was elected; and
(2) takes this opportunity to congratulate Comrade Phumulo Masualle for being elected the chairperson, his deputy, Comrade Gugile Nkwinti, secretary, Comrade Oscar Mabuyane, deputy secretary, Comrade Helen August and treasurer, Comrade Thandiswa Marawu.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Mrs A N D QIKANI
INTRODUCTION OF PROVINCIAL BUDGETS AND EXPENDITURE REVIEW 2005-06 to 2011-12
(Statement by the Minister of Finance)
The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Chairperson, hon delegates, ladies and gentleman, thank you very much for your warm welcome. I have great pleasure in introducing the Provincial Budget and Expenditure Review to you today.
The tabling of this review in the NCOP provides an important opportunity for South Africans to reflect on our provincial system. It is also useful for us to remember that the current constitutional system is the result of our negotiated settlement. We are now 15 years into our democracy and there is no doubt that great progress has been made on the delivery of services and on the embedding of the system.
No one can deny that there are more children attending school today than at any other time in the history of our country; there are more people accessing health services now than 15 years ago; our housing programme is deemed historic internationally; and there are many such examples of our successes. This year's review, which we table today, highlights this undeniable progress.
However, as South Africans, we have to look at the next step we have got to take and not just at our achievements. This review also then provides us with an opportunity to reflect on the impact of government spending on the lives of ordinary citizens.
Is the quality of services at a level that has had a lasting impact on the lives of our people? Has the education system, with the expenditure that we have put into it, delivered the skills needed for the economy to grow and to foster social cohesion? Why is it that our education outcomes are lagging behind other comparable countries? Despite the historic delivery on housing, did this contribute to sustainable communities where our people can work, sleep and play in peace? The answers to these questions will, without a doubt, suggest that we have many challenges before us before we can realise the goal of a better life for all South Africans.
I am of the view that the review that I table in this House today will allow you and the NCOP to ask these tough questions and to undertake this interrogation. It should be a tool that you can use effectively to exercise your oversight responsibility, to challenge us and people at provincial level to work smarter and to be efficient and effective in the period ahead so that we achieve the developmental goals we have set for ourselves.
Provincial budgets have increased by R100 billion between financial years 2005-06 and 2008-09. By 2011-12, provincial spending will stand at R339 billion and would have more than doubled since the 2005-06 financial year. The growth in the budget should allow us space to strengthen our education system, ensure effective service delivery on health services and expand social services to our people.
I remain concerned that the outputs and outcomes are not in line with the massive investments we are making. What could be the underlying reasons for this mismatch between the huge sums of money that we have put into education, health and social development, on the one hand, and on the other hand, the social and other outcomes that we expect from it?
What is it that we could do better? What is it that we are not doing correctly? What is it that we are not doing properly in the service delivery chain of our country? These are the questions we all need to ask and ask more vigorously. If we don't ask these tough questions, we will be endorsing poor performance and we will be endorsing the fact that these billions of rands that we do have and have invested in these various services are not being used productively. When departments in our provinces come to report to us on the funds that we have appropriated, what questions do we ask them and what questions should we ask them? These are difficult and unpopular questions, but I implore you to have these franck conversations in a much sterner way than we might have done until now.
But let's not focus on the negative, let's look at the road ahead of us. Yesterday you had an opportunity and the time to look at this document carefully with the assistance of tertiary officials. Today is the time for you to recommit with us to provide better service delivery and ensure that we have better value for money.
I am told that many of you have made very interesting suggestions, and I thank you for that, to address the challenges that we face. Let me highlight some of these: Firstly, there is a need to change the culture of our Public Service from self-serving to serving our communities. One can't emphasise this strongly enough and we hope that your voices will get much louder than they are at the moment, to ensure that we do, in fact, get better value for money and that hard-earned taxpayers' contributions to the South African fiscus is not abused, as it might be in many instances.
Secondly, norms and standards should be developed to guide our delivery and these should include norms and standards in terms of the schools that we build, the support that we give to schools and the basic standards for sustainable communities. Here again I think that much more can be done than we have done currently to ensure that there are universal norms on the one hand, with appropriate deviations where that might be necessary for specific provincial conditions.
Thirdly, there is a need to modernise the delivery mechanisms. Why is it that a soft drink company can deliver soft drinks, or newspapers, for that matter, to thousands of outlets on time without any leakage, and yet our clinics are without drugs and medicines, and our learner support materials arrive late or never arrive at all?
Fourthly, contract management must be strengthened in our provinces. This should ensure that there is alignment between delivery and payment and that we avoid any unwarranted escalation of costs. Not only should there be alignment between delivery and payment, but there should be alignment between payment and real delivery, because many payments take place without any delivery taking place.
Fifth, supply chain management needs to be strengthened. National Treasury and its provincial counterparts will be taking a strong lead in this particular regard.
Sixth, provincial treasuries must on a quarterly basis present their section 32 spending numbers to the relevant committees as a matter of routine, and these committees must align their processes to start building a culture of accountability. I want to offer, on behalf of National Treasury, assistance for your committee to empower you to understand those numbers and to interrogate those numbers and to hold the provincial treasuries accountable.
Seventh, national and provincial governments must also take the lead to realign budgets from noncore to core areas of service delivery. What we need to put a stop to is when money is budgeted for health, it must be spent on health and not on consultants or frills that a particular political office bearer might have in mind that has nothing to do with improving the conditions in which our people live or the services that they actually receive.
Lastly, there must be consequences for failure in the same way that there is reward for excellent performance. Action against nonperformance must be stepped up. One of the things that South Africans are guilty of is being too compassionate with ourselves, so we don't take nondelivery or nonperformance seriously and everybody is resting in the comfort that if they don't deliver it's ok, their job is still safe and there won't be any consequences.
Unless there are consequences - and that can be anything from naming and shaming to getting fired - no human being takes any performance requirement seriously, whether that is in the work environment, in the public or private sector, or any other environment, the same rules apply.
So join us in making sure that there must be consequences for nondelivery, there must be consequences for tender fraud and there must be consequences if you have actually engaged in corruption.
This is a step in the right direction, the kind of conversation that we had yesterday. There should not be any nonaction on our part. Our people cannot continue to suffer while we sit on the sidelines and do nothing when we have the power to do so much more. We have achieved much, as I have said, in the past 15 years and we should build on those strengths and continue to improve the lives of our people and that is that we must be able to bring the promise of a better life for all into being a reality at a day-to-day level for our people.
I believe that the foundation that we have laid over the last 15 years is a very strong and powerful one. We should be proud of the fact that we have actually built a whole new constitutional system in less than 15 years on the kind of negotiated settlement that we have had and that is something that we can write in the history books.
But unless we build on that foundation and unless we progress in the kind of directions that your own comments have indicated, we will lose and chip away at that particular foundation and so I hope that you will work with all of the other office bearers at a provincial and local government level to build on that 15-year foundation. Learn from what this review tells us about our performance and make a commitment to much better performance as we go forward. Thank you. [Applause.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you, hon Minister, I actually thought that one of the members would stand up and move a motion about the wonderful workshop we had yesterday. They haven't done so, but let me repeat the statement that I made in the workshop yesterday.
We started with this workshop two years ago, and it was the first time yesterday that we had an intense discussion on the document that had been given to us. I have never seen members so dedicated in deliberations. Normally when you hold a workshop at Parliament, by 5 o'clock there will be no one left as they all have to be at other meetings or in their offices to take calls, etc.
They were disciplined until the last minute; everyone was there until the end. I want to congratulate them; everyone did a very good job. Even I myself couldn't slip out to go to all the meetings that I was supposed to attend - I had to stay until the end.
I would like to say to the members that that particular document actually gives us information that will assist us in playing our oversight work function. The Minister is quite correct in saying that we need to use it everywhere we go and ask those hard questions, and not just take it and put in drawers where it will gather dust. We want to thank you, Minister, for organising that workshop. It was an eye-opener for us.
Last week we had a provincial week – that is where we spend time in the provinces doing our oversight function – and everybody actually said that we should have had this workshop before going to our provinces. Next time we will plan it that way, so that we get this information before we go. Again, thank you very much. I think it was a wonderful workshop. I would also like to thank your staff; please tell them that they have done a very good job. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE
End of take
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
HERITAGE DAY: "CELEBRATE CRAFT."
(Matter for Discussion)
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE: Chairperson and the Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP, hon members of the NCOP, comrades and friends.
The Ministry of Arts and Culture welcomes the opportunity to participate in this debate broadly to reflect on the meaning of Heritage Month to the people of South Africa. The Heritage Month represents an opportunity for us as a nation to celebrate our rich and diverse cultural heritage.
It is an opportunity to reaffirm once more that what unites us far outweighs that which divides us; it is time to celebrate the profound power of our cultural heritage to help in the renewal of our society to promote patriotism.
Indeed, throughout this month, we must use our common heritage to promote national unity, reconciliation, and social cohesion, appreciating fully that South Africa belongs to all who live in it, black and white. The theme for this year's Heritage Month is: "Celebrating South Africa's craft, our heritage."
During this month, as the Department of Arts and Culture, we pay tribute, particularly, to the crafters, many of whom are found in rural areas and have made a significant contribution to the development of our country's rich heritage. This year's theme presents an opportunity to highlight the socioeconomic impact of the craft industry in our country.
It also seeks to encourage further development and investments in the crafts sector of our economy. This theme recognises that, historically, crafts have been part of the South African economy, especially in rural areas. It takes into account that until recently the role that crafts have played in our economy has not been fully acknowledged.
It is for this reason that this year's Heritage Month activities are designed to raise awareness about the socioeconomic impact of the crafts sector. The Department of Trade and Industry, estimates that South Africa's crafts sector contributes about R2 billion or 0,14% of South Africa's GDP, annually.
In addition, the sector provides jobs and income for approximately 38 000 people through an estimated 7 000 small enterprises. The crafts sector can also be used as a catalyst for rural economic development and for fostering expanded participation in the economy, especially by women. This is significant, particularly, since one of the key priorities of this term of governance is the development and revitalisation of rural economies.
Furthermore, as the art of designing and producing craft products is handed down from generation to generation, members of communities have an opportunity to work together and impart knowledge and social values to each other, especially the youth.
This contributes to social cohesion and instils the culture of respect, discipline, and ubuntu. It is for this reasons that we continue to say that crafts represent both an economic activity and also a cultural practice.
While crafts made a significant contribution to the economy, it is the middle persons – and not the crafters themselves – that derive the most benefit from this sector. Another challenge which faces this sector is that, currently, most raw materials used in the production of crafts products are imported and, therefore, unaffordable for many people.
Access to markets also remains a challenge for practitioners in this sector. Therefore, going forward our task is to find appropriate responses to this and many other challenges facing this sector.
Since 1994, through numerous agencies, the government has provided resources to help to develop the craft sector of our economy. In the Department of Arts and Culture, through our Investing in Culture Programme, we have spent over R300 million over the past three years to support various crafts projects. This has led to the creation of jobs and contributed towards building sustainable livelihoods. Working together with all stakeholders, including the private sector, we must improve on these initiatives.
Our country is privileged to be home to no less than eight World Heritage Sites, namely; Mapungubwe, Robben Island, Vrede Fort Dome, the Cradle of Humankind, Cape Floral Region, Richtersveld, Isimangaliso Wetlands and Ukhahlamba Drakensburg. We have a responsibility to use these sites to further stimulate tourism in our country thus contributing to the national effort to create decent work and build sustainable livelihoods.
In this regard, the Department of Arts and Culture as well as the Department of Tourism have begun a process aimed at developing synergies between heritage and tourism. It is important that we do this because tourists are often attracted to a particular cultural and heritage significance.
The highlight of the Heritage Month is a Heritage Day celebration that will be held in the Sekhukhune District at the Ntwampe sports ground in the Moroke village in Limpompo. Deputy President Kgalema Motlanthe is expected to address this event.
I, therefore, take this opportunity to wish you, Chairperson, and the hon members a happy Heritage Month. We are looking forward to your continued support as we celebrate our country's rich and diverse cultural heritage. I thank you very much.
Mr M J R DE VILLIERS
End of take
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE
Mr M J R DE VILLIERS: Chairperson, it is indeed an honour to participate in this debate today because it is an opportunity for the DA to say exactly what opportunities there are in our country with its diverse communities. This is a huge blessing received from the hand of God, and we, as His children, must make the utmost of His blessings bestowed upon us.
Let us first look at the meaning of the term "craft" for it to give us an eagle's view of what we have here. "Craft" refers to a set of opportunities and activities that involve a person's skill, innovation and dedication to produce a desired object. It is also a viable to bring out an art piece which either has a utilitarian or decorative value or even both.
The principle materials used to create crafts are wood, stone, clay, glass, textiles, metal, cement and paper. We find crafts in the categories of handicrafts or traditional crafts.
Craft is as old as human beings. In saying this, we, as people, have lost the real value of what crafts could do to promote opportunities, the economy and employment in communities, and what it could do for South Africa. Traditional crafts are done in old ways. Their methods, tools and techniques have been used for centuries. Some crafts are done by modern inventions - with new tools, techniques and media.
Afrikaans:
Voorsitter, Suid-Afrika is 'n huis met 'n multi-kulturele samelewing en gemeenskap, vol diversiteit en verskille. Juis hierin lê die rykdom wat ons sukkel om te ontgin, omdat ons en ons kinders in die moderne ontwikkeling vasgeval het. Ons moet onsself daaruit ontsluit, met ander woorde, 'n balans moet gekry word. Hierdie multi-kulterele karakter het die potensiaal en kapasitiet om 'n noemenswaardige ekonomie te genereer waaruit 'n maatskaplike voordeel vir die nasie geskep kan word.
Die vraag kom soos 'n refrein na vore: Verstaan en gebruik ons ten volle die potensiaal en dinamiek van kuns en kunsvlyt?Juis hierin lê die ope geleentheidsgemeenskap wat ook so oud is soos die mensdom self en word reeds op verskeie gebiede gebruik. Dit is glad nie 'n nuwe begrip nie.
Kom ons toer verder, in hierdie geleentheid. Die moderne samelewing
stroop ons jeug en volwassenes van die talente wat ons van God ontvang het. Die Bybelse uitdrukking sê: Moenie jou talente onder 'n maatemmer verberg nie. Laat ons van die een penning nog meer maak en dit lê juis in kuns en kunsvlyt, opgesluit.
English:
Let us celebrate our crafts and our heritage everyday in the real sense of the word, from the young to the old. South Africa is the best country in which to celebrate an industry that has morphed from an expression of creativity to a form of producing crafts, natural resources and recycled products. Our rich history of cultural expressions is particularly defined in crafts.
A nation is built by celebrating its common identity and pride and by building cohesion and sustainable communities to showcase its museums, galleries, heritage and other tourist attractions. We must never try to erase our history in South Africa, and this characteristic is currently shown by the ANC government in trying to wipe out a certain piece of history in certain areas of our country. We must use history to cause those coming after us to never do it again because of the ills it has created. Our diversity lies in all of this.
National Craft Month is a great reminder to tell the kids about the potential of fun they could have, although they've grown widely accustomed to movies and video games as a form of entertainment. Childhood is the most fragile time of our lives, and it is of utmost importance that our kids are well-prepared for whatever life has to show them later on.
Kids love making things, therefore, we must also use this opportunity in our schools. This method of education is less and less seen and used in our schools, and the curriculum must include craft and other forms of handiwork for our learners. The benefits are huge and enormous, such as the following.
Firstly, creativity is healthy and relaxing. It builds dexterity and motor function since one's hands and mind are used to create. Secondly, creativity relates to lots of mental ideas, problem-solving and comprehension.
Afrikaans:
Dit ontwikkel die mens se selfbeeld en erkenning. Dit sal juis ons kinders op skool leer hoe om hulle verstand te gebruik en reg te dink en hoe om te evalueer.
Derdens, kinders leer ook hoe instruksies gevolg kan word en watter ouer sal nie daarvan hou dat hul kinders hulle instruksies en leringe volg nie!
Die doel heilig die middel en dit is een van die middele wat gebruik kan word om dwelms en bende betrokkenheid by ons jeug aan te spreek.
Elke jaar in September word Erfenisdag gevier en die regering kies 'n tema. Hierdie tema, "Celebrating Craft, our Heritage", moet in murg en been, dag tot dag, skool tot skool, gemeenskap tot gemeenskap vasgevat en ontwikkel word. Die geleenthede wat dit bied, moet ontgin word. Die oplossing vir al die probleme in ons land, lê opgesluit in die diversiteit van die nasie.
English:
The heritage awards event of this year honours six South Africans for their contributions. The awardees this year are: the late Alfred Nokwe for theatre; Johny Clegg for music and social cohesion; Noria Mabasa, an accomplished sculptor and wood carver; the late Bheki Mseleku for music; Nanda Soobben, a Durban-based animator and arts educator, and Jay Pather for dance. [Interjections.] I thank you. [Time expired.]
Ms M W MAKGATE
End of take
Mr M J R DE VILLIERS
Ms M W MAKGATE: Chairperson, let me express my attitude to the ANC for having entrusted it to me to debate on this phenomenal theme of celebrating our craft, which is very close to my heart. Every year the month of September revives our spirit in terms of taking pride in and valuing our cultural practices and traditions.
Crafts play a vital role in our lives especially in the rural communities. It promotes the values of ubuntu, social cohesion and gives us an identity. Furthermore, it promotes tourism and contributes to our economy.
The Freedom Charter says that:
The government shall discover, develop and encourage national talent for the enhancement of cultural life;
All the cultural treasures of mankind shall be opened to all, by free exchange of books, ideas and contact with other lands;
The colour bar in cultural life, in sport and in education shall be abolished.
During the dawn of democracy in 1994, we removed all the apartheid clauses that created a division; instead we created a rainbow nation where we could celebrate our diversity and affirm our beliefs that South Africa belongs to all who live in it, black and white.
The above is guaranteed in the Freedom Charter and further affirmed in the Constitution of the country. The equality clause under section 9 of the Constitution provides that the state may not unfairly discriminate, directly or indirectly, against anyone on the grounds of ethnicity, colour, social origin, belief or language.
The celebration of our culture, crafts and heritage has been in existence even long before the democratic dispensation; however, not so much cognisance was given in terms of exercising and demonstrating our heritage proudly to other nations.
After 1994, this sector was given a lot of attention and made a priority. In a global world, arts, culture and heritage are often given high priority as they assist the country in terms of income- generating opportunities.
Originally, crafts have been a traditional skill of black people, especially from the rural communities and farms who would manufacture during their spare time. Traditional people have been specialising in work such as indigenous wood items, grass mats, pots and paintings. Gradually people graduated to producing serious traditional beadwork attire such as necklaces, bracelets and belts.
Through this artwork rural communities have been using this skill to express their natural creativity and to generate skills and income. Normally women would gather in small groups and work together, singing or even sharing a pot of food. This has promoted the building of the spirit of ubuntu, unity, peace and solidarity amongst the locals. On a large scale this has contributed to nurture the families and develop their communities.
Boineelo Service Club in Ipeleng, Mamusa Municipality in the North West is where elderly people come together on a daily basis to do handwork at this club. This helps them to exercise their hands and also become mentally strong. This gives them an opportunity to talk about their history.
It is very important to maximise the use of institutions like Mmabana in Mafikeng, which used to be the best in crafts. We cannot allow these centres to vanish. Due to the nature of this trade, it is very informal and not legislated. The producers become vulnerable to manipulation. They become victims. They are always cheated and do not get value for their items, which are normally bought at a very low price from them and sold at a very high price either locally or abroad. From there these items would be exported and branded, yet these are proudly South African products.
It requires of us as Parliamentarians to empower our people economically and also give these people the necessary skills, eg, financial management and marketing skills so that they can benefit from their work. We also should look into encouraging young people to take this as a career and give them the necessary support.
This month reminds us of who we are and where we come from. Today we have become very Eurocentric in terms of our dress code, the food we eat, the manner in which we relate to one another, the houses we stay in and even to the extent of the medication we use. We have kind of neglected the value of our origin. It is always of great importance to remind ourselves of our own origin and go back to the basics.
There used to be a difference in the dress code of a married and unmarried woman, but today it is not easy to say that. If we compare the dress code of South African women to that of other African countries like Ghana and Nigeria, they are very proud of their African attire.
The beads that we wear often have meaning. To a large extent, it is believed that our traditional dress code, including the beads, have the power to connect us to our ancestral spirits. In Tshivenda, IsiNdebele, Sesotho and IsiXhosa culture there is a certain manner in which the community would paint their houses. It's a technique. They use different colours that symbolise who they are.
We have become more reliant on Western medication and have neglected the value of African herbs and the role they have been playing for centuries in preserving the rural communities. They further have a role in combating diseases such as HIV and Aids, cancer and diabetes.
Setswana:
Ke tshwanetse go tlhalosa gore mo malatsing a a fetileng jaaka Maaforika re ne re na le ditlhare tsa rona tse re di dirisang tse gompieno di fetoletsweng fela mo sekgoeng. Sekai, motekwane o ne o dirisiwa go fodisa sehuba; lengana le ne le dirisiwa go fodisa sehuba; kgobemetsing e gompieno e bidiwang lavender, ke tee e e neng e thusa go fokotsa kgatelelo ya madi le mogalakane o re o bitsang aloe gompieno, o ne o thusa go fokotsa kgatelelo ya madi le mala a a segang.
English:
Let us all enjoy Heritage Month. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr J J GUNDA
End of take
Ms M W MAKGATE
Mr J J GUNDA: Chair, hon Deputy Minister, indeed the Constitution of our beloved country clearly states that the people of South Africa believe that South Africa belongs to all who live in it, united in our diversity.
South Africa has a rich cultural heritage that is evident in our diverse cultural expressions, oral traditions, craftsmanship, social practices, rituals and festive events, which have always been celebrated and passed on from generation to generation.
We in the ID believe that heritage plays a crucial role in nation-building. Indeed, in our efforts to bring about social cohesion, we will need a return to the Nelson Mandela years of reconciliation so that we can begin to replace mere respect for each other's cultures with a celebration of these cultures as if they were our own.
We in the ID believe that we must also see Heritage Month 2009 within the context of the global economic meltdown – a phase of recession that has in turn resulted in large-scale job losses. It is imperative that we show solidarity with the poor through our actions. The ID would therefore like to take this opportunity to call on all South Africans to give in the spirit of ubuntu, share what we have and to get involved in work that will improve our communities.
As members of the community, we need to focus on local cultural crafts, getting to know our provinces and helping to preserve our heritage. I would like to extend this and say that if you can go to the Northern Cape, to the Kalahari, you can go and see original crafts and the beauty that crafts can do so that our children can keep this and learn from this.
Heritage Month is a time to reflect on our constitutional responsibility to develop our South African culture. Part of this means nurturing our indigenous languages and supporting South African literature. We must develop all languages to have equal status in our day-to-day lives, and not only equal status in our Constitution.
Allow me to quote from Robert Mangaliso Sobukwe when he said, and I quote:
Here is a tree rooted in African soil, nourished with waters from the rivers of Africa. Come and sit under its shade and become with us the leaves of the same branch and the branches of the same tree. We dare not compromise, nor dare we use moderate language in the cause of freedom.
I thank you.
Mr S H PLAATJIE
End of take
Mr J J GUNDA
Mr S H PLAATJIE: Chairperson, hon members, on the 24th of each year, we consciously remember what each of the cultural groups in our country contributed to the rich tapestry that makes up South African life. It is appropriate that Heritage Day comes at the beginning of the spring season. Africans at home and the Diaspora, irrespective of their colour or their social background, must rise to the call of cultural renewal and celebrate our crafts.
As Eric Arthur Blair puts it, he who controls the past controls the future; he who controls the future controls the present.
Cope acknowledges that 24 September signifies the call for South Africans to reinvent themselves and take very seriously their cultural lessons and values. This House is a microcosm of the diverse and rich cultural heritage, yet how much do we know about each other's culture?
In Europe, September is also time to remember heritage because without the knowledge of heritage, we cannot know ourselves. This year, Sweden celebrated European Heritage Day on 13 September by focusing on the theme, namely, "Sweden-Finland, a shared history". Therefore, as Cope, we recommend that we always remember in our celebration of heritage and crafts in this country to acknowledge that the majority of people do not actually take this day very seriously.
But this is not so with the Zulu people. The day of 24 September was celebrated for a very long time as King Shaka Day, and that will happen again this year. It is right and proper that we should dip into history to understand how we became who we are and learn to know who we want to be.
Heritage is priceless, and crafts are also priceless. Heritage cannot be treated in a frivolous manner. Heritage walks with a person and such a person gives and begets respect. The greatest blemish that our country suffers from comes from the rampage of criminality that is prevalent everywhere. Criminals generally have no awareness of culture, history or heritage. Our schools are becoming notorious for violent behaviour. An unawareness of heritage spawns such violent behaviour and criminality.
People who experience no connectedness with iconic figures of the past, music, dance or literature will obviously have no moral compass. Even if what happened in the past was not glorious, it serves to teach and to inform.
Civilisation occurs when we select the positives from the negatives. When people act together for the good on the basis of the good that they inherited, they stimulate arts, culture, music, craft, literature and dance.
For four days in September, people in the UK are offered open doors to castles, churches, houses and other buildings of great architectural value. They pay nothing and are welcome to explore places and buildings that would normally be closed to them. [Interjections.] Thank you very much, Chairperson. [Time expired.]
Prince M M M ZULU
End of take
Mr S H PLAATJIE
IsiZulu:
Umntwana M M M ZULU: Mhlonishwa, Mphathisihlalo, mhlonishwa Phini LikaNgqongqoshe Wezobuciko Namasiko, amalungu aleNdlu ahloniphekile, ngithi thina njengezwe laseNingizimu Afrika singeze sakuphika ukuthi siyizizwe zezizwe ezinamasiko ehlukene azo.
Engibuye ngiziqhenye ngakho njengezwe zivumeleke zonke lezi zizwe nezizwana ezikhona ukuba zenze leyo mikhutshana yazo. Njengelungu elihloniphekile likhulume ngokuthi thina laphaya KwaZulu siyaye sikhumbule Inkosi uShaka. Inkosi uShaka siyaye simkhumbule njengombumbi nomqambi wesizwe samaZulu lapha kucoshakala abantu abayizigidi eziyishumi nanye kulelizwe laseNingizimu Afrika.
Esingakuphiki siyingxenye yezwekazi laseNingizimu Afrika lilonke kodwa njengezigidi eziyishumi nanye zabantu siyakwazi ukuthi umuntu owahlanganisa isizwe esingangaleso sikwazi ukuthi simkhumbule ngemikhuba yakhe ayenza ukulwela ukuhlanganiswa kwabantu.
Ngithi-ke Mhlonishwa Ngqongqoshe kuzinselelo ezibhekene nathi sonke akushu ukuthi uwedwa njengoNgqongqoshe. Sonke njengezakhamuzi zalelizwe kufuneka sikukhuthaze ukuthi sibekezelelane uma esinye isizwe sizigqaja ngamasiko aso ngoba iNingizimu Afrika inezizwe ezinhlobonhlobo esingeke sakuphika lokho. Uma singaphika izinto ezinjengalezo zingabe sikhuluma ilumbo nje lelumbo lokweqhatha abantu.
Ngithi ke ngiyamhalalisela uhulumeni ngoba lolu suku asalwenza lwabasemthethweni. Kufuneka futhi uhulumeni ezilimini zomdabu waseAfrika sikufake ukuthi bakithi ingane uma ingakwazi ukukhuluma ulimi lwayo lwebele isizulu, isixhosa, isisotho njengolimi lokuqala kuyihlazo esizweni. Ngiyabonga Mphathisihlalo.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: COMMITTEES: Thank you very much, hon Zulu. I hope not everybody picked up what I picked up during the interpretation.
Mrs R M RASMENI
Mr M M M ZULU
Mrs R M RASMENI: Hon Chairperson and the House, during the dawn of democracy in 1994, with the removal of apartheid laws, the birth of a new nation in which the celebration of cultural diversity and affirmation of beliefs that South Africa belong to all who live in it, black and white was realised. The Constitution of the Republic under the Equality clause section 9 provides that, and I quote:
The state may not unfairly discriminate directly or indirectly against anyone on one or more grounds, … ethnic or social origin, colour, … belief, culture, language …
Under section 31(1) it further stresses that -
Persons belonging to a cultural, religious or linguistic community may not be denied the right …
(a) to enjoy their culture, practise their religion and use their
language; …
I was just reminding the House about this clause. To affirm the above constitutional provisions the ANC-led government put in place the Chapter 9 Institution: the Commission for the Promotion and Protection of the Rights of Culture, Religious and Linguistic Communities.
One has to acknowledge the fact that South Africa is a country with a rich cultural heritage. Through the ANC-led government, a space has been created for all cultural groups to enjoy and demonstrate their heritage with no fear or intimidation.
Heritage and crafts have been in existence long before the democratic dispensation. Since 1994 this sector has been given a lot of attention and priority. In the global world arts, culture and heritage are often given priority as they assist the country in terms of recognition of its nation status. Originally crafts have been a traditional skill for black people, especially those from the rural communities and farms to manufacture during their spare time.
Traditional people have been specialising in work such as indigenous wood items, grass mats, grass baskets, etc. Through this art work the rural communities have been using their skills to express their natural creativity and to generate skills and income. Normally woman would gather in small groups, work together. While working, they would sing together or even share a pot of food.
These items would be sold to the tourists. They would divide the income generated amongst themselves. Due to the nature of this informal trade, it was not legislated. As time went by the locals became vulnerable to manipulation. They became victims. They could not get value for their items. These items would be bought for a very small amount from the locals and the buyer would sell it at a very high price, either locally or abroad.
In his 1997 Heritage Day address on Robben Island, former President Nelson Mandela, stated inter alia that, and I quote:
In an earlier period Afrikaners celebrated their heritage in song and ceremony; in festivals and carnivals; in the selling of their own wares and buying items associated with their heritage; and by working the history of their communities into everyday artefacts, as the women of Hlabisa weave their stories into baskets.
The ANC strives to facilitate and celebrate cultural production that captures the diversity, complexity and vibrancy of all South Africans and recognises that a flourishing cultural life is vital to the well-being of South Africa. At its 52nd National Conference at Polokwane, the ANC reaffirmed our belief that arts and culture is a cornerstone of any national democratic society and a fundamental pillar in the transformation of our society.
Traditional cultural expressions such as the design and production of crafts are handed down from one generation to another and are constantly evolving, developing and being created within the community. They reflect communities' cultural and social identity and are created for commercial, religious and cultural purposes. Manifestations of traditional cultural expressions include basket weaving, crafts, instrumental music, songs and pottery.
Crafters have over the years produced a vibrant crafts legacy by using natural resources and recycled products such as plastic bags, paper, cardboard boxes and wire, among other things, from their communities. There's a lot of new work in traditional media, with artists constantly developing the African crafts repertoire. These range from pretty tableware, Christmas tree decorations, magnificent embroidered cloths and also bed linen.
The Sculptor, Phutuma Seoka is another artist who has taken a traditional form and given it a personal twist. In his case, the carving of figures using the inherent curves and forks of tree branches, common in the Venda region, is used to create a cast of eccentric characters. More than a decade ago Comrade Wally Serote, then an ANC MP, said that the Arts and culture in South Africa, if properly organised, could become a very good provider of revenue because there are some arts and crafts which are uniquely peculiar to South Africa. He said we are looking at a possible multimillion rand industry, and that the craft industry would be developed to benefit women in rural areas in particular. He added that these women have the skills, but need resources, infrastructure and business capacity.
The crafts industry has gradually moved from being just a mere expression of individuals' skills to entrepreneurship. Practitioners still lack protection from exploitation. The imbalances between rural and urban areas must also be addressed.
Lastly, recognising therefore that South Africa is home to a unique and diverse crafts industry that produces a wide range of craft products across different styles and genres, we also realise that it bodes well for rural development, which is one of the priority areas for the current administration. We must not miss the opportunity to highlight the socioeconomic value of the crafts industry and encourage further development and investment in it. I thank you. [Applause.]
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE
End of take
Mrs R M RASMENI
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE: Hon Chairperson, firstly, let me take the opportunity to thank hon members for their contribution. Quite clearly, everybody said the importance of heritage cannot be overemphasised, but also that we should continue to celebrate heritage on a daily basis.
However, during this month, it is particularly important as we chose the theme of craft to really ensure that the work OF all those women in rural areas, who are trying to produce one form of craft or the other, is promoted and that they are protected and exposed to markets beyond our shores.
There are lots of people who come to this country and are impressed by what we produce. They want to buy these goods. We must make sure that our people are not exploited and that they can derive value through money for what they produce. But at the end of the day, the crafts reflect who we are as a nation. As the Department of Arts and Culture, we will continue to promote crafts as part of our heritage in our country, and make sure that we promote crafts from all over South Africa because we are in a process of building one nation. Therefore, it is important that we recognise the diversity that exists.
I want to particularly encourage hon members to visit some of the heritage sites that we have in the country. As I have said, we have more than eight World Heritage Sites. I am sure that members have taken time to visit some of them; if not, please do so. You can take your children and expose them to these important areas of heritage in our own country.
But I want to conclude by thanking members for their constructive contribution to the debate, and agree that going forward we must continue to work together to ensure that our country can continue to thrive as a united country in its diversity - with various cultures. But at the end of the day, we must ensure that we remain a strong nation. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP
THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE
INTERNATIONAL DAY OF DEMOCRACY
(Matter for Discussion)
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you, Chairperson. Hon members, yesterday the Inter-Parliamentary Union and parliaments around the world celebrated the second International Day of Democracy declared by the United Nations General Assembly in 2007.
In its Resolution 62/7 establishing the International Day of Democracy, the UN says:
Reaffirming the Charter of the United Nations, including the principles and purposes contained therein, and recognizing that human rights, the rule of law and democracy are interlinked and mutually reinforcing and that they belong to the universal and indivisible core values and principles of United Nations,…
reaffirms –
… that democracy is a universal value based on the freely expressed will of people to determine their political, economic, social and cultural systems and their full participation in all aspects of their lives; …
3. Encourages governments to strengthen national programmes devoted to the promotion and consolidation of democracy, including through increased bilateral, regional and international cooperation, taking into account innovative approaches and best practices; …
4. Encourages regional and other intergovernmental organisations to share their experiences in the field of democracy promotion with each other and with the United Nations system where appropriate, …
The International Day of Democracy is meant both to celebrate democracy and to serve as a reminder that the need to promote and protect democracy is as urgent now as ever.
The choice of 15 September for the International Day of Democracy corresponds to the adoption, in September 1997, by the IPU, of a Universal Declaration on Democracy. That declaration affirms the principles of democracy, the elements and exercise of democratic government and the global sCope of democracy.
The 2009 International Day of Democracy was held under the theme, "Democracy and Political Tolerance". In a statement released yesterday to mark this day, IPU President Dr Theo-Ben Gurirab described political tolerance as follows:
… accepting and respecting the basic rights and civil liberties of persons and groups whose viewpoints differ from one's own. … It is the foundation of democratic dialogue and political pluralism.
This year's International Day of Democracy has been defined as an opportunity for parliamentarians to emphasise the importance of democracy, what it involves, the challenges it faces as well as the opportunities it offers, and the central responsibility that all parliaments have as the key institutions of democracy; to examine and discuss how well parliament performs its democratic functions, possibly on the basis of self-assessment and identify what steps it may take to strengthen its effectiveness; and to promote awareness and practice of political tolerance within parliament and the greater society.
As noted by the UN in 2007, we are mindful of the central role of Parliament and the active involvement of civil society organisations and media and their interaction with government at all levels in promoting democracy, freedom, equality, participation, development, respect of human rights and fundamental freedoms, and the rule of law.
The Freedom Charter, the seminal document adopted in 1955 and which gave meaning to our struggle for democracy, states that the government of the country shall be based on the will of all people, black and white, and that all adults shall be entitled to a universal suffrage; and that all national groups shall be equal and racialism shall be considered a serious state crime.
In 1994 this dream was realised when South Africa joined the rest of humanity as a free nation. In the 15 years of our democracy we have been applauded for entrenching democratic practices. We have done more than many established democracies in espousing political tolerance. This is not surprising because our struggle for freedom was informed by a deeper yearning for democratic rule.
Bidding farewell to the UN General Assembly in September 1998, our first President and struggle veteran Nelson Mandela, said that in his retirement he would -
… continue to entertain the hope that there has emerged a cadre of leadership in my own country and region, on my continent and in the world, which will not allow that any should be denied their freedom as we were; that any should be turned into refugees as we were; that any should be condemned to go hungry as we were; that any should be stripped of their human dignity as we were.
As we mark the International day of Democracy, we are reminded of the many in our land and abroad who sacrificed their lives for others to enjoy freedom. We salute the veterans of the struggle who were inspired by the vision enshrined in the Freedom Charter, that the government of the day shall be based on the will of all people, black and white.
South Africa is now a better place, the envy of many nations. As we forge ahead, building our nonracial democratic society, we must continue to work hard to create a better place for present and future generations.
Our democracy will be meaningless if it does not lift our people from poverty. It will be meaningless if the wealth of our country is not shared among all the people.
History is an important teacher for us. Building strong democracy remains our goal as a nation. Central to this is the building of strong institutions of democracy, promotion of political tolerance and ensuring a government that is open and accountable to the electorate.
Parliament, whose role is to oversee the work of government on behalf of the people, is an important institution in the world, and therefore people should regard it as such and respect it.
As President Mandela said, we must –
… not allow that any should be denied their freedom as we were; that any should be turned into refugees as we were; that any should be condemned to go hungry as we were; that any should be stripped of their human dignity as we were.
We should not allow this as parliamentarians. We should guard against it. We should go around in our country and make our democracy stronger, and protect our Constitution that was not just drafted by us as parliamentarians, but by the entire society of South Africa that we've engaged in completing this piece of document, which is so wonderful and praised by the entire world. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr R A LEES
End of take
THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP
MR A LEES
THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP
Mr R A LEES: Chairperson, Chairperson of the NCOP, hon members, ladies and gentlemen, it is with a sense of honour and pleasure that I address this august House this afternoon. Like many hon members present here today – and there are not that many present – I have spent the better part of my life campaigning for democracy in our country.
There are those who will argue that South Africa is now a democratic country, and in many ways they will be correct. It is indeed a better country. A democracy, however, is not an event that occurred for South Africa in 1994. It is a system of government which evolved, and continues to evolve; one which requires every one of us to nurture and protect it. It is, therefore, fit and proper that we should celebrate this the International Day of Democracy.
Democracy is not simply government of the people by the people; there is so much more to democracy than that. There are certain core and independent institutions in any real democracy. These are the legislature, the executive - or government - the state, the judiciary and the Press. If even one of these institutions ceases to be independent or to exist, then democracy under these conditions is doomed to failure.
There is a dangerous view amongst many of the people in South Africa that democracy starts and finishes at the ballot box, that once the majority has won, then it is the democratic right of those with the majority to control, not only the legislature and the government, but also all other institutions of democracy such as the SABC, the judiciary and other institutions.
Thus we see the appointment of cadres of the ruling party at all levels in state departments, the JSC, the SABC board, the Reserve Bank and others.
The holding of elections and forming a government does not constitute a democracy. Before 1994, South Africa was no more democratic than Swaziland is today. Elections and governments existed or exists in both, but neither can be called democracies. Largely as a result of the unselfish efforts of our very own hon Nzimande, who is not here today, there is today a disabled person who is a member of the Swaziland parliament. Even so, that parliament is still not part of a functioning democracy.
I spent last week in the company of the Kwa-Zulu Natal delegates to the NCOP; good people, every one of them, with whom I believe I have formed a close bond. Despite these good people, two of us, delegates from Kwa-Zulu Natal, who are not members of the ruling party, were left high and dry on Thursday because the official programme had been cancelled to allow the ANC delegates to attend an ANC workshop.
In a small way, this is an example of the view that interests of the ruling party take precedence over the interests of government. I raise this point not to embarrass my Kwa-Zulu Natal colleagues in any way, but simply to highlight the dangerous mode of undermining democracy that we sometimes find ourselves in.
Some of us will argue that it is the job of both Parliament and government to implement the wishes of the people. In a democracy, the wishes of the people must always be balanced against the requirements of justice, and in particular, justice for every single man, woman and child. A situation wherein the rights of a single person are trodden on in order to carry out the wishes of the people is not a democracy.
The National Socialist German Workers' Party, the Nazis, in Germany had the support of the people, but it was certainly not a democracy. In South Africa, there can be no justification either for my son to be denied employment simply because he's a so-called white. How can we justify it when my son is interviewed for job by a large corporation, reaches the final selection, but is then told that despite his suitability for the job, they cannot employ him because he is not African.
Let me say it to you that this manipulation of individual rights to give preference to some South Africans simply on the basis of skin colour is undemocratic and is no better than the job reservation laws of the apartheid government. I say it to you today, ladies and gentlemen, my family and I are African, and no government will ever take that away from us.
What our democracy in South Africa urgently needs is for opportunities to be created for all its people; that is what we need to make it a true democracy.
We all need to grapple with the meaning of real democracy for South Africa, and to try, without rest, to put this into place. We must never again allow our country to slide into the undemocratic state of nationalism.
With God's help, may we all strive for a nonracial liberal democracy in South Africa. I thank you, Mr Chairman.
Mr A WATSON: On a point of order: Hon Chair is it in order for a member of the ANC, hon Gumede, during the speech of hon Lees to admit it verbally by saying "Kunjalo" when the member was saying that it is not democracy for the governing party to think they control the judiciary, and by so doing defying the Constitution which says that its not the right of any party to control the judiciary?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr R J Tau): What is your objection? What is the point of Order?
Mr A WATSON: That is a reflection on the Constitution. By saying "Kunjalo" that means it is true that the party that governs this House and this country is not in line with the Constitution, and objectively disrupts the Constitution.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr Tau): I don't have the benefit of the statement that you are referring to, which will make my life very difficult if I am to make a ruling on that. Do you mind if we then allow me to satisfy myself with what you have said and then maybe present the ruling in the next sitting on that particular matter? Also I need to verify the state of order of whatever statement that was made. Is that agreed to? You don't agree?
Mr D M GUMEDE: Chairperson, we want to agree but it is important that, in the future, members must not raise issues if they have not listened to what other people were saying in this House. Satisfy yourself, because I think he is out of order; it's incorrect. He has not said that. Please satisfy yourself and give a ruling in this House.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr Tau): If we are agreed on that particular process, then lets conclude it. I think … [interjections.] Hon Watson … [interjections.]
Mr A WATSON: Chair, you gave a ruling, and now he says I'm out of order. Rule against him.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr Tau): Hon Watson, we had agreed as a House that we are going to proceed in particular way, and … [interjections.]
Mr A WATSON: But the member does not agree Chair.
The Chairperson( Mr Tau): No, he is not objecting to that ruling. [interjections.]
Mr A WATSON: He says I'm out of order, that means he's not agreeing.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr Tau): No, if he had not agreed with the ruling, he would have then said that my ruling was incorrect; but it's not what he is saying. Hence the ruling stands. Can we proceed with the debate.
Mr D B FELDMAN
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Mr R A LEES
Mr D B FELDMAN: Hon Chairman, hon members, it is nearly 12 years since the International Parliamentary Union adopted the Universal Declaration on Democracy.
The IPU did this to affirm the principles of democracy and of the elements and exercise of democratic government. Naturally, the IPU was keen to see the parliaments of the world doing more to entrench these principles within society. Since last year, 40 countries have begun participating in celebrating the International Day of Democracy.
It's a pleasure for me to stand up this afternoon and affirm the principles of democracy on behalf of Cope. I know that we all share the ideal.
A mere 20 years ago it was not even possible to conceive of such a thought, yet here we are celebrating democracy. The theme for this year's International Day of Democracy is, "Political Tolerance". It is common cause that political tolerance is indeed a central tenet of democracy. As such, political tolerance is absolutely essential for the functioning of our Parliamentary system and mode of government.
Today, we should not only be mouthing platitudes concerning political tolerance, but should also be reflecting deeply on it and committing ourselves to it without reservation. Our commitment to political tolerance has to be absolute.
Our unique history must teach us political tolerance. The example of the iconic Nelson Mandela must teach us tolerance. The philosophy of ubuntu, to which all of us subscribe, must teach us tolerance. A perfect democrat, in my view, is the person who shows the greatest political tolerance and is open to new ideas for the common goal of all.
In our country we have many political parties. Political parties have many disagreements about processes and policies, but never about outcomes. All of us who are here are motivated by a single desire to serve our people in the best possible manner.
As parties, we are therefore united on the outcome we want. Our contestation, therefore, is limited to practice and policies. This is democracy at work, and let us therefore set high standards for ourselves in this regard. We know that it is through debate that the best ideas are born. And where debate is suppressed, the worst excesses occur.
In conclusion, may I propose to this House that we take the cue from Uruguay and launch an essay competition for grade 11 learners on the phrase that appears on the upper walls of the General Assembly, namely:
My authority emanates from you and it ceases before your sovereign presence.
If our children imbibe the principle of democracy, that which we are seeking to build here today will indeed last into the future. Let democracy in our country never falter. Let us, therefore, on this momentous occasion, recall the following stirring words by Nelson Mandela:
Never, never and never again shall it be that this beautiful land will again experience the oppression of one by another. Let freedom reign.
I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr M M M ZULU
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Mr D B FELDMAN
IsiZulu:
Umnt M M M ZULU: Sihlalo ohloniphekile, Sihlalo ohloniphekile waleNdlu, Mnumzane uMahlangu osihola kulezinkulumompikiswano, namalunga ahloniphekile aleNdlu,ngithi thina lapha njengezwe laseNingizimu Afrika siyazi ukuthi inkululeko yethu sayilwela kanjani ngendlela ezehlukene kule lizwe.
Ukwehlukana kwemiqondo yethu sasilwa nomuntu oyedwa nje, nabantu ababodwa ababe zama ukusikhubaza nokusikhinyabeza ukuthi ezweni lethu sibe yizihlupheki. Kepha angeke sakubamba lokho ngoba sesalilwela lelizwe futhi sesikhululekile sonke. Ngiyazi ukuthi ngonyaka ka1994, kwakungokuqala ukuthi ngivote kule lizwe ngivotela uhulumeni wentando yeningi. Uhulumeni usekhona manje kufuneka sazi ukuthi bab'u Mahlangu, impilo yentando yeningi emazweni womhlaba yilapho kuphikiswana khona. Kodwa ukuphikisana kwethu akungasho ukuthi kufuneka sibambane ngezandla silwe impi yamazwi ukuze sikwazi ukuthi uhulumeni obusa ngaleso sikhathi abesendleleni okuyiyona yona.
Akungasho ukuthi kufuneka ngigxeke ngephuzu lokuthi kufuneka ngizuze amaphuzu ezepolitiki yini ohlangothini lwami kodwa kufuneka ngigxeke ngokwakhayo uma kugxekwa ukuze kwakhiwe kuyiwe phambili. Ngithi-ke sonke la kufuneka siyijabulele inkululeko yethu sikwazi futhi ukuyigada ukuze sibone ukuthi kuhamba kanjani ezintweni eziningi. Ngoba inkululeko ihamba ihambe ibenomkhawulo.
Uzakwethu uthe Isahluko 9 kumthethosisekelo nezinye izinhlangothi kufuneke ziyekwe zisebenze nje. Hayi! Mina ngithi cha! Cha! Ngeke kuthi uhlelo lwezobulungiswa luyekwe nje lusebenze ngaphandle kokuthi lugadwe nguhulumeni ngoba uma kungenzeka lokho ngoba sonke sophelela emajele singabantu ngenxa yentando yemantshi ethile eyodwa noma ngomeli othile. Ngiyabonga.
Mr J J GUNDA
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Mr M M M ZULU
Mr J J GUNDA: House Chair, Chair of the NCOP and hon members, let me start off by saying that the International Day of Democracy is a time for all of us around the world to reflect on the value of democracy.
What is also important is that those of us who are fortunate enough to live in a democracy need to look at ways in which we can not only strengthen our own democracy, but also show solidarity with our fellow human beings who are still living in undemocratic societies.
It is up to each and every one of us to ensure that the flame of democracy is lit throughout the world and burns brighter and brighter.
Democracy is government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme powers vested in the people are exercised directly by them or by the elected agents under a free electoral system; a state of society characterised by formal equality of rights and privileges, political or social equality and democratic spirit; democracy is about the common people of the community, as distinguished from any privileged class; and the common people with respect to their political power.
Democracy needs to deliver on the aspirations of the people and form part of the drive for the creation of a more socially and economically just world.
Here at home, this is an auspicious day on which we should celebrate our people's freedom from oppression and the fact that we overcame a racist, undemocratic regime and replaced it with a democratic dispensation.
Our unique and impressive story is an example to nations around the world. We, in the ID, believe that democracy is not true democracy unless it is a purveyor of social and economic justice.
As an example to other nations in the Third World, South Africa has a leading role to play in negotiations around fair trade and climate change.
We also cannot allow the recognition of our position as a role model to other nations, stand in the way of honesty when it comes to the living conditions of our own people. With more than half of our people living in abject poverty, it is clear that our democracy has not yet translated into something tangible for our people.
Only once we have ensured that increasing numbers of our people taste the fruits of our democracy will we be able to say that as public representatives, we have achieved what our people trusted us to deliver.
We have certainly seen some improvements in the lives of our people, but we still have a huge amount of work to do. And until that work is done, true democracy will remain a reality only for the upper echelons of our society. We, in the ID, would therefore like to recommit ourselves to the task at hand.
Let me also just agree with hon M J Mahlangu that we need to have political tolerance so that we can respect each other, so that we can have a better life. I thank you. [Applause.]
Ms B V MNCUBE
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Mr J J GUNDA
Ms B V MNCUBE: Chairperson, hon members, on 18 November 2007, the 192-member UN General Assembly, stressing the need to promote democratisation, development and respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms, agreed to observe 15 September each year as the International Day of Democracy.
In addition, the Assembly affirmed that democracy is a universal value based on the freely expressed will of people to determine their own political, economic, social and cultural systems and their full participation in all aspects of life.
The quest of the ANC for a better Africa and a better world derives from the internationalist tradition, with its origins in the Freedom Charter, which states that "There Shall be Peace and Friendship!"
and that-
South Africa shall strive to maintain world peace and the settlement of all international disputes by negotiation – not war;
South Africa's geopolitical location continues to shape and inform this agenda for a world order which must be characterised by greater security, peace, dialogue and greater equilibrium between the poor and rich.
In this, we are guided by the ANC's principles of a better life for all and a vision of a better Africa and a just world, hence our country entered a global discourse with a clear reform agenda and with a view to promoting the democratisation of international, political and economic relations.
South Africa, while cognisant of its status as a middle power on the global stage, has deliberately set out to confront the global realities of a skewed distribution of political and economic power, mass poverty and conflict resolution. It is committed to the promotion of human rights, to democracy, to Africa and to international peace through participation in the global system of governance.
To this end, and recognising the relationship between armed conflict and poverty, the ANC has prioritised the reconstruction of Africa, particularly where internal and armed conflict, poverty and underdevelopment militate against democracy, peace, stability and development.
History informs us that parts of the African continent, especially postcolonial Africa, has been subjected to dictatorships, armed conflict, ethnic wars and genocide. This culminated in the displacement of her peoples, concomitant outbreaks of disease, hunger, and the absorption of millions of refugees in countries that were perceived to be safer.
As a signatory to the African Charter on Democracy, Elections and
Governance, we have, as a country, reaffirmed our commitment to the relevant decisions of the OAU; the 1999 Algiers Declaration on Unconstitutional Changes of Government; the Lomé Declaration for an AU response to Unconstitutional Changes of Government; and the 2002 AU Declaration on Principles Governing Democratic Elections in Africa.
In fact, the preamble to the African Charter commits the member states of the AU to the principles enshrined in its Constitutive Act, particularly the articles which emphasise the critical importance of good governance, popular participation, respect for the rule of law and upholding human rights.
It places obligations on African countries in relation to the holding of regular, transparent, free and fair elections; the separation of powers; the promotion of gender equality in public and private institutions; effective participation of citizens in democratic and development processes and governance of public affairs; the condemnation and rejection of acts of corruption, related offences and impunity; and the condemnation and total rejection of unconstitutional changes of government.
It currently remains uncertain as to how many countries actually ratified the Charter. Although the Charter does provide for state parties to initiate measures, including legislative, executive and administrative actions to bring state parties' national laws into conformity with itself, it leaves a lot to be desired.
It can therefore be argued that the African Peer Review Mechanism, established by Nepad as an instrument for voluntary self-monitoring for good governance by AU member states, was neither adequately applied in terms of its injunctions, nor addressed by parliamentarians on the continent.
But, even so, in all countries, democracy is about much more than a single decision or a hastily organised election. It requires a deeper process of political development to embed democratic values and culture in all parts of society and a political maturity to sustain it.
In fact, let me correct hon Lees by pointing out that the apartheid regime never practiced democracy. It protected only the few at the expense of the majority of South African citizens, Africans in particular. So, real democracy was ushered in by the ANC, for the people, by the people, for the people's power, in 1994.
In South Africa, under the ANC-led government, the Constitution has enshrined a number of institutions supporting constitutional democracy. These include the Public Protector, the Auditor-General, the Public Service Commission, the Human Rights Commission, the Commission for Gender Equality, the Independent Electoral Commission and the Commission for the Protection of the Rights of Cultural, Religious and Linguistic Communities, and the Hawks – formerly known as the Scorpions.
The independence and impartiality of these institutions are entrenched in the Constitution. Hon Lees, mazambane. The three pillars of democracy are Parliament, the judiciary, and the executive.
It is of great significance that Parliament has ensured maximum public participation and public accountability, which is central to democratic governance. Public participation enables popular participation by nongovernmental organisations and institutions, various stakeholders and all those who have an interest in various pieces of legislation, specific debates and the performance of the state in general.
Public accountability has ensured that there is transparent and robust debate and scrutiny of government actions. Overall, the transparent functioning of particularly select committees of this august House and the dedication of parliamentary activists has deepened accountability.
In conclusion, let us always remember that it was the ANC who introduced the Freedom Charter. I heard my hon colleague from Cope quoting from the Freedom Charter. The first systematic statement in the history of our country of the political and constitutional vision of a free, democratic and nonracial South Africa can be found in the ANC's 1989 Constitutional Guidelines for a Democratic South Africa.
That document stated that the creation of a truly just and democratic South Africa required a constitution based on, among other principles, a Bill of Rights and that such a Bill of Rights should guarantee the fundamental human rights of all citizens irrespective of race, colour, sex or creed. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr M J MAHLANGU
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Ms B V MNCUBE
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: House Chairperson, I thank all the members of the House for supporting this debate. I think everybody has driven home his or her point. However, I just want to say a few words. If one listened to me very well, I said quite a few things that I quoted from other people. I think those things are very important in democracy.
Firstly, I said that when the chairperson of the Inter-Parliamentary Union, IPU, Mr Gurirab, was celebrating this day last week he said that democracy is accepting and respecting the basic rights and civil liberties of persons and groups whose view points differ from one's own. That is very important. We will never agree on everything in this world. We will always differ. But differing does not mean hating each other, niether does it mean fighting each other. That is what democracy is about.
We don't have the same minds as we are seated here. Every one of us has a unique way of thinking. These things are normal. For example, I normally have a fight with my wife as well as my children. But I've never chased them out of our home. It is their democratic right to question some of the things that I'm doing as much as I have the right to question some of the things that they are doing. At the end of the day we sleep together, and we've got a very happy family. [Interjections.] That is all it means.
There are people who are so self-centred and selfish because they want to be recognised as individuals. We shouldn't be doing that because we would be killing democracy. All these views from the different walks of life that we are living as people in this country are very important. That's a viewpoint which I have expressed, and I put it very clearly.
Also, I said we are mindful of the central role of parliaments and the active involvement of civil society organisations and media. I have said it here; it's in my statement. I am reading from my statement about their interaction with government at all levels in promoting democracy, freedom and equality. They should not be destroying.
There are those who destroy. Building this democracy is not an easy thing, but destroying it is a very simple thing. I'm talking about promoting and not destroying these things: freedom, equality, participation, development, respect of human rights and the rule of law. We have to promote these issues, and we have to talk about them.
We must tell those people who are destroying them that they are wrong. Let's not go to restaurants to have dinners with such people and tell them they are right whereas we, as public representatives, know that those things are wrong and are destroying our Constitution. As I have said, the Constitution is a lovely document drafted by the people of South Africa, and we respect it.
I also quoted the former President, Mr Mandela, who said we must never allow - not just himself but all of us here as public representatives - that any should be denied their freedom as we were denied ours in the past; that any should be turned into refugees as has happened in the past; that any should be condemned into going hungry as we did in the past; or that any should be stripped of their human dignity.
We must not allow those things. All of us as public representatives must protect these rights as they are enshrined in the Constitution so that our dignity will remain intact and we can be proud citizens of South Africa. I thank you, House Chairperson. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr R J TAU)
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The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP
TEMPORARY SUSPENSION OF PROCEEDINGS
(Announcement)
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr R J TAU): Hon members, you might have noted that there is a second order, but we can't continue with it because the Minister is absent. However, I have been informed that she is on her way. Therefore we request a suspension the proceedings for the next five minutes or so.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE NCOP (Ms N D Ntwanambi): I support what the House Chairperson is saying.
The MINISTER OF MINING
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr R J TAU)
OVERSIGHT VISIT TO HARMONY GOLD MINE ELAND SHAFT IN WELKOM
(Consideration of Report of Select Committee on Economic Development)
The MINISTER OF MINING: Chair, please accept my apology for running late. Sometimes programmes tend to clash, so I once more tender my apology for coming a bit late.
Hon members, today's debate deals with issues of illegal mining. Theft of gold and illicit mining is nothing new in South Africa, as theft has been occurring since the inception of the gold mining industry.
Illicit mining in South Africa started to gain momentum from the late 1990s. Illicit mining first reared its ugly head in Welkom as far back as 1999. The department and mining companies have been working together over the last decade to put an end to this problem, but with little success. The recent unfortunate loss of 91 illegal diggers' lives in Welkom has again put into sharp relief the scourge of illicit mining, and has focused public attention on the issue like never before.
Illicit mining poses serious challenges for the industry. This issue is extremely complex and it should not be underestimated. Illegal mining is a huge multibillion rand criminal industry featuring national and international syndicates and is valued at some R5,6 billion.
These gold smuggling syndicates are highly organised, dangerous and well resourced. When considering the question of how these syndicates manage to transport food and other consumables deep down into the mines, it is clear that illicit mining is being assisted by legal miners, both workers and managers.
Explosives and equipment are also transported and stolen from underground stores of operating mines. Thousands of diggers – many coming from Lesotho, Mozambique and Zimbabwe – are willing to risk their lives to profit from these illegal activities.
These illegal diggers are armed and dangerous. We want to send a clear message that poverty cannot be an excuse for criminal activities. I want to make it clear that all those involved in illegal mining are no different from those ruthless criminals involved in cash-in-transit heists who mercilessly kill our policemen and policewomen.
In Barberton, in the province of Mpumalanga, illegal diggers are now taking over equipment and work places. They openly carry a huge number of weapons, including AK47s and 9mm pistols. Intergang fights and shoot-outs are now a daily occurrence in this area.
Confrontations between illegal miners, the police and security personnel are becoming more frequent. Legal miners have also been abducted in Barberton and illegal miners use human shields when confronting the police. In Welkom, booby traps using explosives are set for the police and security personnel.
Therefore, illicit mining is also spilling over into illegal activities, including child prostitution and child labour. Both employees and communities are experiencing serious threats where illicit mining takes place. These illegal activities are impacting negatively on the economy, robbing our country and its people of valuable resources which could otherwise have been used to improve the lives of our people.
The sophistication of these gold smuggling syndicates cannot be underestimated. The so-called zama zamas are the diggers recruited from the ranks of experienced, unemployed miners, and are known to stay underground for up to a year. They protect their turf from other illegal miners or threaten and attack legal miners.
At another level, local gangs are also involved in, amongst other things, recruitment and the supply of food and basic necessities underground. This creates networks of mine officials and security guards who receive bribes for their support and even provide legal support to arrested illegal miners.
The local syndicates interface with the exporter who then smuggles gold out of the country. The smuggled gold then changes hands with intermediaries or front companies and end up with international buyers. These illicit mining activities threaten to undermine the country's economy, and social and security policies which have been coined, not only for enhancing the Republic's reputation as an investment destination of choice, but also for its citizens to enjoy the fruits of our democracy.
To this end, this government has taken decisive steps to ensure that we deal firmly with illegal mining. On 2 June 2009, we visited Welkom immediately after receiving the news of the 36 deaths there, to see for ourselves and get a first-hand understanding of the issue.
We visited Welkom again, on 13 June 2009, to discuss the issues with a wide range of role-players, including the local communities, municipalities, business people, mining companies and trade unions. Representatives of the SAPS, both nationally and provincially, were also in attendance.
Subsequent to that, we established the Free State Illegal Mining Stakeholder Forum, constituted by community leaders, organised labour, municipalities, mining companies, the Department of Mineral Resources, the SAPS as well as the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development. Other relevant departments are also consulted to provide assistance where necessary.
The Free State Illegal Mining Stakeholder Forum has since developed an action plan to eradicate illegal mining activities in the region. The Stakeholder Forum continually monitors progress made on the implementation of the action plan by the relevant stakeholders, as a sign of the forum's success. There are now reports that illegal miners have been migrating to the West Rand in Gauteng.
Having been presented with this matter, Cabinet noted the serious nature of the threat that illegal mining poses to the country, and took a decision that the matter be attended to by the Justice Crime Prevention Security cluster, the relevant structure to deal with this criminality.
We have since presented this criminal matter to the Inter-Ministerial Security Cluster, which agreed, amongst other things, that the newly-formed Hawks must take over and investigate illicit mining in its totality; that relevant legislation must be applied without fear or favour to deal with racketeering, money laundering, illegal possession of minerals and so on; and that an investigation should determine whether or not local police and prosecutors in the relevant magisterial district are involved with the illegal mining syndicates.
A delegation of Ministers of the JCPS cluster and I will soon visit some of the affected areas to assess for ourselves what else can be done to deal comprehensively with the issue of illicit mining.
In conclusion, I want to assure this House that my department and, indeed, this government of South Africa, have taken decisive steps to tackle the issue of illegal mining head-on. However, I also want to assure the criminal syndicates involved in illegal mining that we have resolved to crush them. We are determined, we are strengthened and we will continue in our efforts. They will continue to feel the heat as government closes in on them, until they stop robbing our people of the minerals that, as per the Freedom Charter, belong to them. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr F ADAMS
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THE MINISTER OF MINING
Mr F ADAMS: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, hon colleagues, let me start from the outset by thanking the Minister for making herself available for this debate about the report. Illegal mining has taken a lot out of our country in terms of finance. Research has shown that R10 million leaves the country a year.
Thank you, Minister, for your consideration. It shows that government, the ANC-led government and the ANC Ministers are really passionate about delivering on the instructions that they got from the President and from the ruling party.
It is quite strange because this illegal mining activity happens on privately-owned mines. The Minister could have just folded her arms and said, "It's privately-owned property, they must deal with it!" But because – and I want the DA to listen, especially hon Faber and hon Watson - we have a caring government that does not only care about money, but cares about the people of South Africa as well, the Minister took those steps.
Hon Watson, if you had listened, you could have heard what steps Minister had taken. Hon Watson and hon Faber, the Minister took proactive steps!
The DA is criticising, but doesn't come up with solutions to the problems. The ANC and the Minister took steps to curb this. As I said, it is privately-owned property! We need to give the DA a lesson on the distinction between state- and privately-owned property.
Without any waste of time, I want to put the recommendations of the committee. The committee has sat and felt that a debate is necessary because this is of national interest. The committee has come up with certain recommendations. I would like to thank the members of the committee who have been proactive, who went to Welkom and engaged with various people there.
The committee has recommended that the Department of Mining and the Department of Police should report back to Parliament. Thank you, Minister, for doing that. Thank you for the willingness you have shown on a regular basis regarding the progress made in respect of remedial steps taken by the state, mining houses and mine owners to combat and prevent illegal mining, and improve the security and safety at mines.
Parliament needs to tighten the laws pertaining to the justice cluster, and the Minister has alluded to that. Thank you, once again, Minister.
Hon Sinclair, be assured, I am not an imbongi for the Minister, but we need to give praise where it is due. You could see that she is a hands-on Minister. She is not a Minister who serves the "congress of the people of Europe," as one of your colleagues has spelt it out. She is a Minister for the people of South Africa.
House chairperson (Mr R J Tau): Order! Is that a point of order?
Mr D V BLOEM: I am confused. I don't know whether it is a Member of Parliament or an imbongi who is at the podium because it sounds like an imbongi and not a Member of Parliament.
House chairperson (Mr R J Tau): I am not going to carry that. You may continue.
Mr F ADAMS: The hon Bloem is confused. He was a member of the ANC until 22 April 2009, and he said that he did not know how his name appeared on the list. He is totally confused. They are a confused "congress of the people". I don't think I need to answer him on that.
As I said, I'm not going to answer hon Bloem because he is totally confused. You cannot say, "I don't know how my name appeared on the Cope list" and the next thing you are sitting in the ANC chairs. That is total confusion. If the ANC didn't take the necessary steps, I don't know what would have happened. [Interjections.]
The proper terminology must be defined and agreed upon in the various sectors, as the Minister has alluded to. There should be co-operation between mining houses, labour unions, SAPS and the Department of Justice. The SAPS should perform top-level arrests and name and shame syndicate kingpins.
The Department of Minerals and Energy must force licensed gold dealers to keep a register of buyers and sellers. Mining companies should tighten up security and invest in proper security systems. The mine, health and safety inspectorate should be strengthened in order to implement effectively the Mine Health and Safety Amendment Act, Act 74 of 2008 and to investigate and enforce compliance with the Act, which will hopefully result in reducing occupational injuries and ill health.
The Mine Health and Safety Amendment Act should be amended to increase the fine for noncompliance in respect of the safekeeping of explosives from the current R200 000 to R1 million. Underground security patrols should be encouraged. Security should be increased at functioning mines, including search procedures, to prevent the theft and smuggling of equipment and explosives.
The shortcomings in dealing with illegal mining need to be addressed, especially gaps in current legislation. I put this report before this House for support. Thank you. [Applause.]
Ms E C VAN LINGEN
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Wednesday, 16 September 2009 Take: 410
Mr F ADAMS
Ms E C VAN LINGEN: Chairperson, hon Minister, it is good to have you here, hon members. As the NCOP committee, we visited the Eland Shaft, and we were briefed by all stakeholders except the zama-zamas. Those who were underground would not speak to us and those that were above ground were dead - a lot of them. They died at the beginning of June.
We found out about three major things at the shaft. The illegal mining industry is growing fast; the second issue was that it is organised crime on a big scale. I don't know if I heard the Minister correctly. She spoke about R5,6 billion. The figure that was mentioned to us was R10 billion, so it varies a bit. Billions! Yes, it's a big industry. Until these unfortunate deaths, the ANC and the Department of Mining had been turning a blind eye to all of this. [Interjections.] It has been coming for a long time; illegal mining is a big contributor to organised crime in South Africa, and it needs to be stopped.
The so-called "zama-zamas" channel an estimated R10 billion each year into the hands of criminal syndicates. These funds go into drug distribution, prostitution rings and all other sorts of unsavoury practices – in short, activities that make South Africa a more dangerous and unlawful place.
It is obvious that cutting down on these activities would have a drastic and immediate effect on the ability of organised crime to function and will, therefore, improve the security situation in South Africa. Rather than spending millions upon millions of rand on government VIP protection, the people of South Africa would be much better served if crime can be tackled at it roots.
In order to do this, the DA happens to be agreeing with the Minister. We would like the Hawks to form a special unit, and this is what we are proposing, to exclusively clamp down on the zama-zamas. The case for such a unit is clear. It is a relatively specialised area, and it is a source of criminal funding that can be turned off if policed correctly.
Up to now, the government has had its head in the sand, so to speak. There has been no political will to curb the spread of illegal mining at these decommissioned mines, thereby creating a huge gap to fill the pockets of criminals. The Department of Mining is clearly incapable of dealing with this matter, and is either unwilling or unable to take action against this problem. It is true that monitoring the decrepit mines may be seen as counterproductive to a country that needs all of its security resources available. But the argument is clear; stop this huge influx of funding to criminals and organised crime will be reduced.
South Africa needs to be smart about how we are going to tackle the enormous crime problem. Merely waiting for something to happen, as the Department of Mining has done until the beginning of June, is not going to solve anything. On the contrary, the problem is getting worse and is getting more difficult to clamp down on it, as it is becoming more entrenched.
Some may argue that clamping down on illegal mining is unfair because these people are merely scavenging the remains of old mines. This argument does not hold up, especially since organised crime is part of the package. Unemployed people are severely exploited, often having to stay underground for up to six months. The Minister said it is double that time, so let us believe her. It is inhumane and surely falls beyond the ANC's conception of decent work.
The DA will take the matter further as the zama-zamas are becoming everybody's problem. The government needs to do something.
In closing, the DA sympathises with the families of those zama-zamas who died so tragically early in June this year. These deaths are placed at the door of Department of Mining. It took these deaths to bring the horse to the water, and now we will help the horse to drink the water! I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr K A SINCLAIR
End of take
Ms E C VAN LINGEN
Mr K A SINCLAIR: Chairperson, hon Minister and hon colleagues, in a recent interview with the Mail & Guardian published on15 June 2009, Sipho Mahabane, who has been involved in this activity for four years, admitted that, and I quote: "There'll always be a demand for gold on the black market". He continues by submitting that gold smugglers from Limpopo and foreign gold smugglers, mainly from Mozambique and Zimbabwe, and local business people control the illegal mining operations in the area. He says that the kingpins operate syndicates which include legal miners, shift managers and security guards. These kingpins regularly visit the now notorious G Hostel.
That is according to Mahabane, who is one the thousands who are involved in a R10 billion industry. Taking Mahabane's admission as a true reflection and synopsis of the daily life of an illegal miner, the purpose of the visit to Welkom on 7 July was to assess the unacceptable situation, which includes the tragic death of many, but also the loss of millions of rand of revenue to the state. It is necessary, Chairperson, to ask three critical questions. Firstly, who and where is the market for this R10 billion activity? Secondly, what is the role of the formal mining sector and mining houses in this illegal activity? Thirdly, why can't the notorious G Hostel be decriminalised? The recommendations of the committee, supported by Cope, certainly strive to answer these questions and challenges.
It is, however, necessary to add to these recommendations by suggesting that a specialist unit of the SAPS be considered. It seems that Saps is involved and, in some instances, highly infested, regarding these investigations and activity.
This is also applicable to the approach regarding the G Hostel, and the inability to decriminalise the alleged bastion of criminality in Welkom and in the Free State.
Chairperson, it's necessary that the hon Minister, the Cabinet and government must seriously engage and also come up with suggestions and recommendations with regard to how to address this unacceptable situation. The one issue that needs to be addressed is the quantum of these activities. I heard hon Adams speak about R10 million, the Minister spoke about R5,6 billion, and our activity indicates R10 billion. But we know hon Adams by now. He always gets confused by a zero here or a zero there. [Laughter.] But we don't blame you for that. Chairperson, we accept his chairpersonship, and we want to thank him for taking us with; it is not always that COPE has the privilege to travel with the ANC. We are always sidelined.
Chairperson, in conclusion, COPE is supporting this report, and we trust that these recommendations submitted by the committee will not only stop the illegal mining activity in Welkom, but also in the rest of South Africa, including the diamond and the platinum industries. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr B A MNGUNI
End of take
Mr K A SINCLAIR
Mr B A MNGUNI: Chairperson, hon Minister, colleagues, in the Freedom Charter we said: "The people shall share in the country's wealth!" However, are we sharing in the country's wealth? We also said in our manifesto that we will fight against crime and corruption.
Now, look at the zama-zamas; where do they come from? Let us look at the background of being in a recession and that the mines were closing down for the past 10 years and the zama-zamas have been there in the apartheid days. As a miner in those days I used to work at some stage at Eiland mines. We were visiting G Hostel and the zama-zamas were there. What did the apartheid government do? Nothing! [Interjections.]
The ANC government and this committee went down there because it cares for the people. [Interjections.]
House Chairperson (Mr R J Tau): Order!
Mr B A MNGUNI: As you move over, you realise that financial crime has forced most of the mining projects to be mothballed because the investors did not have money or they were doubtful about investing huge amounts of money because of the credit crunch.
Also, because of the retrenchments that have been taking place, over 300 miners have been retrenched. Most of those miners are from Lesotho or Mozambique. Those people don't go back home and therefore end up around the mining area. That has resulted in unemployment increasing as rated in the Human Development Index, HDI. In other words, the standard of living deteriorates because most of the activities around those towns are linked to the mines. The problem is: Whose responsibility is that?
The hon Sinclair says the government has turned a blind eye. We never turned a blind eye. We would not have gone down there if we had turned a blind eye. [Interjections.] Excuse me, hon member - I wanted to say the hon Van Lingen. The fact that we did go down there to investigate was to show that we care about the lives of the people and we care about making a better life for all.
The Gini coefficient in South Africa is one of the highest, irrespective of the fact that the per capita income in South Africa is the highest in the whole of Africa. The reason for this is that these mining houses who disinvest planned to do so years ago.
I say this because I also used to be a geologist and I sat in the management meetings. For instance, Anglo American took a decision 10 years before democracy that it wanted to disinvest in South Africa so that when the ANC takes over only 40% of its gold would be mined in South Africa.
They moved over to Ashanti in central Africa because the oil reserves there are still shallow and there was a lot of cheap labour and that would result in high profits. That was the strategy that was laid by the Anglo American 10 years before democracy due to their mineral intelligence department. Now you come here and tell us that the ANC government does not care – that is not true!
Who is involved in these illegal mining. As you are aware the mining houses are puling out and these people who go underground cannot move from one area to another underground two or three kilometre without a guide. I have been a geologist and have worked on the mines for ten years underground. I know how it is like there. It is dark, hot and one cannot breathe once the air is turned off. Now, who was guiding them when they moved from one shaft to the other?
As we were informed by the chief health inspector, they move up to 34km from one shaft to another. For those 34km they go up and down the inclines because underground it is not as flat as one would think. You go up steeply and go down the slopes and have to crawl in some tunnels. Now, who was guiding those people underground? That is why we say it is a syndicate and mine management must involve some people who are sitting there at top positions in ivory towers who are pumping money to these people – they must be involved. [Interjections.]
Hon Sinclair is right in saying there are kingpins because we were told by the secretary of the mines that even though we were there the zama-zamas would know in five minutes time thereafter about what we said in that meeting. We said we will fight crime and corruption and the Minister is right when he says that the law must bite.
Perhaps we should look at our laws, the Mine Health and Safety Act. We must look at our compensation Acts, because as we were informed just last week by the chief inspector on health, most of the people who die on the mines don't die from falling ground or locomotives that move underground.
The main cause of death used to be the locomotives that moved underground, followed by falling ground, but most people die at home because of pulmonary TB. The causes of that is the silicosis that is in their lungs, which they get from the mines and the mines are doing nothing about it.
Therefore, hon Minister, that is what we must look after; we should make sure that the law bites. Because these people go back home from wherever they came from, either Mozambique or Lesotho, and that is where they die a slow death. And the reason is that they are then separated from the mines without being medically checked by anybody. Unfortunately, I am also one of those people who got separated from the mine without being medically checked.
We must make sure that those people who are separated from the mines or leave the mines permanently are properly checked to make sure that when they pass away their families must be paid by the mines if their death is due to the effects of working on the mines. Then the mine must pay.
Another example is, if one goes to the Free State goldfields, one finds that some underground water has been contaminated due to all the acids and minerals that come from the sludge. If you water your garden with that water you kill all your plants. You cannot plough in a certain area between Virginia and Welkom because whatever you plough there dies and the cause is the mines and slime dams. [Interjections.]
House Chairperson (Mr R J Tau): Order! Hon member, can I call you to order. I am busy presiding here and I have got a watch here. Whatever watch you have, don't allow it to instruct me to do something that I am sure I am not supposed to do. So, please, you are quite distracting with that kind of behaviour.
Mr B A MNGUNI: Thank you, Chairperson. I am left with 43 seconds. In short, they say the more rules are imposed the more they are broken; so the lasting solution, hon Minister, is for us to go back to those mines and ensure that we revitalise the economic situation of those mines, not only in Welkom but in Barberton and other areas where these town are turning into ghost towns.
The key solution is that we revitalise the economy of those areas so that people can find jobs and be able to put food on the table and thus better the lives of the people. Thank you. [Applause.]
THE MINISTER OF MINING
End of take
Mr B A MNGUNI
The MINISTER OF MINING: Thank you, Chairperson, for this debate. I would like to thank the chairperson, hon Adams, for leading on this matter of illegal mining, and also the hon members of the committee for the visit. Hon Bloem, apparently you are from Welkom. They say you are part of the zama zamas! [Laughter.]
I would also like to take this opportunity to welcome the report by the committee. We will look at what we can do, because the intention is to make sure that we continuously improve on the situation and stamp out illegal mining.
Hon Van Lingen, we have covered issues that you've raised. There is no caring government like the ANC government. I am here precisely because I care. I went to Welkom because the ANC cares. If I was a Minister under DA government, I am not sure if I would have gone to the place. [Interjections.]
I must indicate to you that I didn't just go there to visit, but to see the situation. I have even been underground, unlike you who only ends up at the top. I am not scared to confront any situation which challenges and threatens my community in South Africa. We will continue to make sure that we do the right thing. We are not going to run away. We are not going to see ourselves as useless, as you say we are. We will take responsibility.
I must indicate that the issue of mine health and safety must be separated from criminal activities. The Mine Health and Safety Act cannot regulate criminal activities. That's pure crime - let's not run away from it. It's illegal mining, whether they are driven by poverty or not. It is wrong and we cannot justify a wrong thing in this country. If we justify illegal mining, we must also justify those who are involved in cash-in-transit heists and kill our police officers and security personnel. It is the same thing. Crime is crime and it must be condemned at all times. It cannot be tolerated.
The steps that we, together with the Justice Crime Prevention and Security, JCPS, are taking are to make sure that we combat and eradicate these forms of activities. They have been pushed to other areas. Barberton, we are coming! Rest assured, we are not lame ducks, especially not me. I am not a lame duck. Hon Makhubela of Cope can attest to that. When I make an undertaking, I live by it and make sure that I oblige.
Hon Sinclair, the ANC cares. It cared yesterday, it cares today and it will care tomorrow. That is why we will make sure that we involve everybody at all times, because we are not selfish and we are not scared of anything.
When we took the theme, "Working together we can do more" it's because we wanted you to come to the table, to come with us to fight this problem. If you don't, this problem will haunt this country, it won't grow our economy and it will cause our country to decline. We cannot afford this. We cannot lead this country into anarchy.
We will fight any form of criminal activity from any quarters, even those who are collaborating. We will make sure that we do the right thing.
I am surprised that the DA is calling on the Hawks to take up the matter. You said it is not going to make it; it is a lame duck! You said it's a hawk that cannot fly. It is flying, my dear, it is flying! And it is flying with colours. It has flown! Six criminals down; four criminals opposite my home, down! All because of the Hawks!
This problem has been referred to the Hawks. Just wait and see, and listen. They are there and we are there as ANC; we are decisive and we don't beat about the bush. Government is led by the ANC. Thank you. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Question put: That the Report be adopted.
IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal,
Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the
Constitution.
Consideration of First Report of Joint Rules Committee, 2009
End of take
The MINISTER OF MINING
Consideration of First Report of Joint Rules Committee, 2009
Order disposed of without debate.
Question put: That the Report be adopted.
IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape,Free State, Gauteng, Kwa-Zulu natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
The Council adjourned at 16:55.
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