Date : Tuesday 02 August 2005

Time : 10:00 – 13:00

Venue: Committee Room S12 A, Ground Floor, NCOP Wing

10:00 – 13:00

Briefing by the Department of Social Development on:

• Children’s Bill [B70 B – 2003]

Madlala-Magubane, Ms M - ANC

Masilo, Ms JM – ANC

Thlagale. Mr JO - UCDP

Lamoela, Ms H – DA

Sulliman, Mr MA – ANC

Tolo, Mr BJ – ANC

Setona, Mr TS – ANC

Vilakazi, Ms JN – IFP

Thetjeng, Mr M – Limpopo (DA)

Mazibuko, Ms F – Gauteng (ANC)

Qikani, Ms AND – Eastern Cape (UDM)

Adolph, Rev E – Western Cape (ID)

Dr Maria Mabetoa – Chief Director: Children

Ms M Sebopela – Assistant Director

Ms M Ngcobo – Director: Children and Families

Mr Pierre Du Preez: Legal Advisor

Ms Ayesha Johaar – State Law Advisors

Ms Ronel van Zyl – SALRC

Mr Natal Donnaloia – Molo Songololo

Ms Paula Proudlock – Children’s Institute: UCT

Ms Lucy Jameson – Children’s Institute: UCT

Ms Nolubabalo Twalo – SAHRC

The Department of Social Development and the SA Law Reform Commission briefed the Committee on Children’ Bill [B70 B – 2003] as approved by the Portfolio Committee on Social Development in June 2005.

The Committee stated that this is a comprehensive legislation and some issues raised concern. These issues were: virginity testing, access to medical treatment and surrogate motherhood.

It was proposed by the Committee that a workshop be held and for stakeholders to be part of this workshop.

In their presentation the department informed the Committee on the: Situation analysis and context, overview, process, objects and contents of the Bill, new proposals and the current position and future plans.

Dr Mabetoa- Chief Director: Children gave a presentation to the Select Committee.

Situation analysis and context:

The presenter stated that the population of children in the country are 18,9 million, 45% of these children live in extreme poverty, 5,8 million receive grants.

She also stated that there are various policies in place for children and these include inter alia: the Constitution, White Paper on Social Welfare, Childcare Act 1983 and other related legislation developed and implemented by other departments e.g. Department of Education – Schools Act etc.

The presenter stated that the challenges include:

• Full implementation of a child right’s approach
• Insufficient budget
• Inaccessibility of services and courts
• Human resources
• Intersectoral collaboration
• Role of local government

These include:

• The costing of the Children’s Bill
• Repositioning of the Department
• Transformation of integrated social services through the financing policy
• Retention strategy – the salaries of social workers have been increased.
• Partnerships
• Linking grants and welfare services
• International instruments
• Strong political leadership

The presenter informed the Committee that the lives of children are affected by various pieces of legislation and international conventions which include, the Child Care Act and the Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction Act.

She further noted that the existing legislation was found to be not in keeping with the realities of current social problems and no longer protects children adequately.

The presenter stated that in 1997 the then Minister of Welfare requested the SA Law Reform Commission (SALRC) to develop a new comprehensive legislation for children. In December 2002 the SALRC finalized its report after an extensive process.

The Department of Social Development who in conjunction with other national departments, NGO’s and service providers aligned the Bill to national directives and priorities took this process further. This together with a scoping exercise of the Bill, which identified the costing elements, led to the subsequent changes of the Bill.

The Bill was approved by Cabinet in July 2003, and was submitted to Parliament in August 2003 and was returned to DSD with the request of splitting it into Sections 75 and 76 Bills, then resubmitted, returned again in Jan 2004, resubmitted and finally sent to the Portfolio Committee on Social Development for further deliberations. Section 75 deals with national competencies and 76 with provincial direct service delivery responsibilities.

The presenter stated that the split has led to the moving of all Section 75 chapters and clauses to a revised Children’s Bill. Other chapters and clauses were going to be inserted in the Children’s Amendment Bill once the Children’s Bill is approved.

Briefings to the PC on Social Development were held in November 2003 before the elections and the new PC was briefed during August 2004 and public hearings were held on 11-13 August 2004. A workshop was held in December 2004 to identify existing responsibilities, policy and legislation as well as gaps in the different departments. Another workshop was held in April 2005 to deal with unresolved issues and after the PC on Social Development was satisfied that it had gathered all the relevant information, all the clauses were reviewed, scrutinized and amended where necessary. The presenter said that significant changes were made to the original Bill and the Bill was passed on 22/06/2005.

The Bill provides for

• the preservation and strengthening of families;
• to give effect to the constitutional rights of children;
• paramouncy of the best interests of a child;
• Provision of structures and services to children and
• to strengthen and develop community structures.

The presenter informed the Committee that significant new proposals include:

• Inclusion of rights and responsibilities of children
• Recognition of the rights of children with disabilities and chronic illnesses
• Recognition of unaccompanied foreign minors
• Specific provision for the participation of children in matters affecting them
• Lowering the age maturity and provide for parental responsibilities and rights agreements
• New Child Protection system for children National Child Protection register for Part B
• An extension of the rights of unmarried fathers
• The need to formally recognize and provide for child- headed households and the protection of children
• Broaden the definition of adoption Social workers to include
• The adoption by same sex partners
• Making provision for persons who previously was disqualified from adopting a child based on his or her financial status
• Adoption register and inter-country adoptions
• Provide for means to deal with inappropriate cultural practices: prohibition of virginity testing
• Using the term Child and youth care Centers for Children’s Homes, Schools of Industry, Reform schools
• Recognition of the Role of social workers in children’s court processes

To follow, as described by the Department of Social Development, a diagram of the current position and future plans of the Department.

The Committee asked for clarity on the Steering

The Committee raised their concern regarding the costing of the Children’s Bill. The Department stated that because this Bill is so complex the department could not find a Service Provider to do a good job and for this reason the costing are currently undertaken. The Department further noted that the Service Provider is costing the comprehensive Bill, which includes Section 75 and 76. It was stated by the department that Section 75 does not have major costing implications, unlike section 76, which has major costing implications. But the department reiterated that the Service Provider will be finalizing the costing of the Bill by April 2006.

Other departments are included and part of the costing of the Bill.

DSD stated that in terms of Section 35 of the PFMA 1 of 1999, all draft national legislation that assigns an additional function or power to, or imposes any obligation on, a provincial government, must in a memorandum that must be introduced in Parliament with that legislation, give a projection of the financial implications of that function, power or obligation to the province.

For this reason, the department stated, that the draft Bill and the envisaged regulations be costed. Stakeholder expectations were raised while the reality is that Government cannot implement because of the large costs and resource requirements. This Bill will have a great impact on the budgets of other national and provincial departments. It would be prudent to have the costs detailed so that these organs of state could frame their decisions on the Bill within the constraints of their own budgets and their ability to implement.

The Department has done an initial scooping exercise of the envisaged Act and identified the costing elements which may have inter-governmental fiscal and budgetary implications.

The Committee noted that this is a comprehensive Bill and that the Committee will have to take its time and involve all the necessary stakeholders. The Department further noted that the envisaged Workshop of the Select Committee would be a good opportunity for stakeholders to voice their concerns e.g. House of Traditional Leaders.

With regard to how the Children’s Bill will affect other departments the Department of Social Development stated that all those departments which will be affected by the Bill was consulted, as well as stakeholders. Due to the intersectoral nature of the Bill, a Steering Committee consisting of officials from the Departments of Social Development, Health, Justice, Education, Local Government, Safety and Security, Labour, Finance, Home Affairs and Correctional Services, the Office on the Rights of the Child in the Presidency and the South African Law Reform Commission was established during 2003 to –

• Oversee all the processes in the finalization of the Bill;
• Manage the intersectoral costing of the Bill; and oversee the development of the regulations to be made
• In this regard each department accepted the responsibility to develop regulations pertaining to the sections regarding its own line function.

The Department gave the Committee an Executive Summary on the Children’s Bill, briefly explaining each Chapter of the Children’s Bill.

• That the Committee have a two day workshop and that this workshop will have to be held this term if possible, and to involve the relevant stakeholders in this workshop, e.g. House of Traditional Leaders etc.
• That the Department of Social Development and the Committee Secretary identify a date for the proposed workshop.
• That Dr Mabetoa will make the information available on the changes made to the Children’s Bill, when the department and the Committee meet again.
• That the Service Provider gives the Committee a briefing on the costing of the Children’s Bill (date to be finalized) by Chairperson and Committee Secretary.

The Chairperson thanked the department and adjourned the meeting.

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