Constitution 16th Amendment Bill [B1-2009]; Cross-Boundary Municipalities Law Repeal & Related Matters Amendment Bill [B3-2009]: final mandates

Meeting report

Kgoshi Mokoena (ANC) stated that as had happened in the previous adjourned meeting it had been decided to focus on the mandates from Gauteng and North West provinces, as these were the two provinces, potentially affected by the Bills. He was happy to be able say that the position had been rectified in the interim and that the matters were proceeding. He added that at the previous meeting all the mandates with the exception of Gauteng had been acceptable and it was because of a desire to avoid a challenge, South Africans being a litigious people, that special arrangements had been made for Gauteng. He called on the Gauteng representative.

Gauteng mandate
Mr Mzizi apologized for any inconvenience Gauteng might have caused the Committee. The Gauteng Legislature had sat only that morning to debate the Bills. He submitted that the Gauteng Legislature had debated and passed the Bill. The Gauteng Legislature had provided its representative in the NCOP, that is himself, with a final mandate to vote favourably on the Constitution 16^th Amendment Bill and the Division of Revenue Bill B4-2009 on 19^th March 2009. He suggested that the Gauteng Legislature had thus left no stone unturned and that the Gauteng Legislature had considered, discussed, and adopted the Constitution 16^th Amendment Bill that day.

Kgoshi Mokoena directed himself to the Departmental Advisors and asked whether they had any comment or other input.

Mr Johan Labuschagne, Legal Advisor to the Department of Justice and Constitutional Affairs, said that all appeared to be in order. In turn, Mr Fanie Louw, Legal Advisor to the Department of Provincial and Local Government, agreed.

Mr N Mack (ANC W Cape) seeking clarity asked whether the mandate from Gauteng was in favour or against the Bill adding that from the wording, it was not clear to him.

Mr Mzizi point out that the previous mandate or report from Gauteng had carried an Annexure 4 and that Annexure 4 he submitted was to be read into this mandate. In terms thereof it was clear that the Bill had been considered, debated and passed by the Gauteng Legislature and the Gauteng delegate now had a mandate to vote in favour of the Bill.

Kgoshi Mokoena confirmed that that document had been handed out at the previous meeting and was to be considered as part of the proceedings. He announced that he was satisfied with the mandate from Gauteng in favour of the Bill.

North West mandate
The Co-Chairperson, Kgoshi Mokoena, requested Mr Moseki of North West province to clarify his province’s stance.

Mr A Moseki (ANC North West) pointed out that the North West Province had ratified the Bill on 4 March 2009 and had given its delegate a final mandate in favour of the Bill.

In response to a request by the Co- Chairperson, the Departmental and other Legal Advisors declined to make any further comment.

Voting on the Constitution 16^th Amendment Bill
Kgoshi Mokoena stated that having acquired and listened to all the mandates he proposed to put the bill to vote by the Committee.

The Committee went through the Bill clause by clause.

Thereafter Mr Moseki moved for the adoption of the Bill on behalf of North West Province and Mr Mzizi seconded that adoption of the Bill on behalf of Gauteng.

Kgoshi Mokoena announced that having considered all the provincial mandates, the Constitution 16^th Amendment Bill was unanimously adopted.

With regard to the Committee Report on the Bill, Kgoshi Mokoena directed himself to placing on record that the Committee, having considered the Bill B1-2009, reported it with the following reservations: -

- South Africa is a unitary state and moving, or being moved, from one province to another should make no difference to any person or community of settlement.
- The Transitional Committee to be established should [quickly and firmly and finally] establish the regulations and Protocols regarding the incorporation process and procedure to be followed when one province was incorporated in, or moved from a province, without a disruption in the delivery of services to the people so that a smooth transition either way is effected;
- That the NCOP should monitor such transfers more closely to ensure that delivery of all services was not affected in any way
- That the Departments should also monitor the developments on the ground and make timeous reports available to the NCOP so that problems could be easily and quickly attended to so that matters do not get out of hand.
- The department should provide such reports within six months, or every six months of the transfer;
- The department should prepare a policy for similar difficulties to prevent same getting out of hand
- Lastly, the Committee calls upon any communities similarly disaffected to make any protests in a peaceful and non-threatening manner and certainly not to damage property, which is only to the detriment of the communities themselves and the expense of the taxpayer.

He added that because of the importance of this he felt it necessary to clarify the situation so that when it came to considering and voting on the Constitution 16^th Amendment and its twin the Cross Boundary Bill on the 19^th March 2009, the issues were clear.

The Committee adopted the He then asked who moved the adoption of the report.

Mr Ntuli stated that he moved for adoption of the report.

Mr Mack stated that he might be moved out of order but he wanted the members to consider a caveat that any such re incorporation should neither hamper nor interfere with service delivery and further that the destruction of property by disaffected sections of communities is to be deprecated.

Kgoshi Mokoena gave an assurance that this would be looked into.

Mr Mack than expressed satisfaction and willingness to second the adoption of the report.

Thanks and Farewell
Mr Mzizi said that he was addressing the Members whilst wearing a Gauteng Representative hat, not an IFP hat, and said that he was honoured that the members had worked as brothers ands sisters in their deliberations on this Bill without any acrimony and that the Committee had always adopted a flexible approach in the best interests of all the peoples [of South Africa].

Mr Ntuli took the opportunity on behalf of the ANC to thank all concerned for their participation. He was especially considerate of the role of the Kgoshi Mokoena who had been a member together with him from inception. Likewise he thanked Mr Mkaliphi who had been Chairperson of Local Government and Administration. He added that there had at times been strong differences of opinion but this was only to be expected, was not personal and perhaps the strength of opinions expressed gave birth to good legislation.

Mr Mkaliphi expressed his thanks and expressed the hope that all or most of them would return after the elections.
 
Kgoshi Mokoena thanked then all for the respect that they had shown to the Chair as this had made what at times can be a difficult role easier. There was no personal malice in differences of opinions which had been frank and forthright. He also expressed his thanks to the Legal Advisors, the staff and the media, in which he included PMG, for their contribution to proceedings. He added that the ANC had a galaxy of talent and if one is selected to be a leader one must lead and in fact it was the strength of the followers which gave rise to strong leadership and he thanked everybody for making him what he is. He noted that as Members of the NCOP, unlike the members of the National Assembly whose terms as Members of Parliament ceased at midnight on 21 April 2009, the members of the NCOP continued their membership until the Provincial Legislatures had appointed someone else to their positions in the NCOP and so they should hold themselves in readiness, and not be surprised, if they were summoned to a meeting or meetings of the NCOP before their terms expired.

With thanks to all he then adjourned the meeting.