Long Term Fishing Rights Allocation; Marine Living Resources Fund; Department of Environmental Affairs & Tourism 2005/06 Annual
NCOP Land Reform, Environment, Mineral Resources and Energy
30 January 2007
Meeting Summary
A summary of this committee meeting is not yet available.
Meeting report
LAND AND ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS SELECT
COMMITTEE
30 January 2007
LONG TERM FISHING RIGHTS ALLOCATION; MARINE LIVING RESOURCES FUND; DEPARTMENT
OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS AND TOURISM 2005/06 ANNUAL REPORT: BRIEFINGS
Chairperson: Rev P Moatshe (ANC, North-West)
Documents handed out:
Department of
Environment Affairs & Tourism 2005/06 Annual Report presentation
2005/06 Annual Report (available at www.environment.gov.za)
2005 Long-term
Fishing Rights Allocations presentation
Select Committee on
Marine and Living Resources Fund Report: 2002-2005 and 2005/06
SUMMARY
The Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism presented its 2005/2006
Annual Report to the Committee. The Marine and Living Resources Fund also
outlined key aspects of its 2005/2006 Annual Report. A progress report on the
2005 Long-term Fishing Rights allocations was also presented.
The DEAT would lend financial and technical assistance to those provinces with
a backlog of Environmental Impact Assessments (EIAs). The migration of marine
resources from West to East coast posed a challenge to the livelihoods of many
fishermen of the West coast and the Department would provide assistance and
strategies for this. The department was committed to the training of black
tourist guides in foreign languages to increase both the marketability and
competitiveness of this field.
The Committee expressed their concerns over the social impact of the migration
of fish to the East Coast, the effectiveness of combating poaching of marine
resources and the visibility of the “”Green Scorpions”. Concerns over the pace of transformation of
the tourism sector and the neglect of township tours were also highlighted.
Rural and underdeveloped areas needed to benefit from higher levels of tourism.
The high vacancy rate in the department was also a cause of concern.
Members emphasised that Departments needed to recognize the mandate of the
National Council of Provinces and when reporting to the NCOP should provide a
provincial perspective.
The Department would provide written responses to the many of questions raised
by the Committee.
MINUTES
Annual Report of Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism
Dr Patrick Matlou (Deputy Director General: Tourism) presented the DEAT’s
2005/2006 Annual Report to the Committee.
Five goals underpinned the work of the Department, which included the creation
of conditions for sustainable tourism growth and development for the benefit of
all South Africans; the promotion sustainable utilization and conservation of
natural resources to enhance economic growth as well as the improvement of the
quality and safety of the environment.
The targets, achievements and challenges of all programmes in the Department
were highlighted. As part its administrative programme, the department reported
an improvement with service delivery as a result of the establishment of a call
centre, the development of new recruitment workflows, an imbizo with
international stakeholders held in Pretoria and Cape Town. There was thus a 19
percent increase in the traffic on the departmental website as well as a 95
percent uptime on the website. However
the promotion of empowerment and the achievement of representivity in key
technical areas were still as challenge. It also struggled to retain a
representative and performing team.
The effective marketing of South Africa as a tourism destination was still a
challenge. South Africa was not well promoted in the United Arab Emirates, the
bi-national Commission postponed the signing of an agreement with Nigeria;
there had been a delay in the release of statistical information by Stats SA
and the implementation of 2010 Tourism Organising Plan was as yet
unfounded. However, advancements in the
transformation of this industry had been achieved with the launch of the
Tourism BEE Charter and the appointment of the Tourism BEE Charter Council. A
Tourism BEE Charter website had also been completed.
Discussion
Mr M
Mzizi (IFP, Gauteng) commended the DEAT for their good work and hoped that this
would continue. He asked what the difference was between part-time and
full-time bursaries which was part of DEAT's
empowerment promotion strategy.
Dr Matlou answered that the full time tertiary institutions bursaries were for
the development of specialized skills, and the cultivation of black scientists.
Part-time bursaries further developed the skills of its employees.
In reply to Mr Mzizi asking what “Bojanala” meant, Dr Matlou answered that it
meant ‘’ tourism’’ in Setswana and was the bi-monthly stakeholder publication
produced by DEAT.
Mr Mzizi noted the Nepad workshop on Invasive Alien species and asked which
species were considered invasive?
Dr Matlou replied that alien species referred to those which were not
indigenous such as the Jacaranda tree.
In answer to a further question, Mr Van Schalkwyk said that the regulations for
threatened and protected species as well as the norms and standards for hunting
had been finalised by MinMEC in November. It was presently with the state
attorneys for checking and will be published by the Minister before the end of
March. The standards on alien invasive species had just been finalised and DEAT would effect this by mid-February for
public comment.
Mr Mzizi requested DEAT to explain the challenges that the court cases filed
against its air quality authorizations, posed. He noted the 82 percent success
rate in such cases.
Mr Lukey
(Chief Director for Air Quality Management) explained that although this 82
percent success rate was good, the rate would improve, as its process of
authorization became sophisticated and therefore more legally enforceable. The
information for issuing of air quality licences, governed by 1965 legislation,
had not been sufficiently detailed. The new legislation would improve the
enforceability of authorizations as information would be more detailed. The
Administrative Justice system strengthened the work of this unit as it could
now follow clear guidelines when making administrative and legally robust
decisions.
Mr Mzizi
said that the DEAT had not yet signed a formal cooperation protocol with the
South African Police Service (SAPS) and Department of Water Affairs and
Forestry (DWAF). Why not?
Mr Adams said that, given the recent muggings in Kirstenbosch Gardens, and
Tafelberg, and the level of poaching, the Green Scorpions were not visible.
Could the Department explain where these officials were and give an explanation
of their current activities? Since
members were committed and serious about service delivery, government
departments were required to be so too. The President’s state of the nation
addresses, the budget votes as well as the approval of budgets by parliamentary
committees were senseless if service delivery was not improved upon. This was
unacceptable.
Mr Lukey responded that the Environmental Protection Unit was not a policing
unit, and did not intend to replace the police.
The unit worked in partnership with SAPS rather than in competition as
the latter would merely complicate its work. Such assistance was needed
especially in situations of danger, in which environmental inspectors could not
defend themselves. No formal working agreement between the unit and SAPS
currently existed and this could impact on the safety of inspectors when
conducting investigations. He added that the relationship with the SAPS was
needed to ensure that environmental crimes could be reported at police
stations. A memorandum of understanding with the SAPS would strengthen the work
of the SAPS.
At this
stage, there is no formal agreement for such cooperation and this puts the
inspectors in harm's way. DEAT had an excellent relationship with the SAPS, but
this relationship should be extended so that people could report environmental
crimes at police stations. Currently, unless people report to the Department or
provincial departments, the police would not know what to do with environmental
crimes such as complaints about noise or burning leaves. The Department would
like to strengthen the partnership with SAPS so SAPS could refer to the
environmental management inspectorate, as the best trained people. The
memorandum of understanding with the South African police service could
strengthen the work done.
The Environmental Management Inspectorate did not prosecute crime. It
investigated crimes and would then hand the case down to a prosecutor. South
Africa had very few environmental prosecutors, and this impacted negatively on
the ability to fight well-compiled and investigated cases in courts.
Prosecutors who were not familiar with environmental law, and despite a
thorough briefing around such issues posed a challenge. A new prosecuting training
course in the methods of managing environmental crimes cases had been
developed. In Kwazulu-Natal, Mpumalanga and the North West, thirty-six
prosecutors had attended, and showed great enthusiasm for the prosecution of
environmental crimes.
The growth of the Environmental Protectorate exceeded expectations. Over 800
accredited environmental inspectors were currently in the field. These
individuals had survived a tough SETA accredited training course, which
required a 75 percent to pass the final examinations. Inspectors were highly trained in terms of
investigation, environmental law as well as additional specialized training in
specific fields like poaching. Training in enforcement challenges around
poaching in national parks, reinvigorated officials.
Due to the work of this unit, the Department had won all twenty court cases
lodged against it. It was true that that the unit chose to investigate and
follow the easier cases as this unit was too young to have too many failures.
The 100 percent success rate would promote compliance. This would only be
achieved if the public believed that if the unit took on a case, it would not
lose. The unit built very strong cases and demand a jail sentence. At this
point a process of plea-bargaining would be entered into and the Department
could gain more victories that had real environmental benefits. This could also
include the planting of indigenous trees as part of a sentence.
The ‘’Green Scorpions", although established, was still small in number.
The unit’s successes were not popularised enough, although the unit had been
unveiled with much fanfare. The Department needed to focus on highlighting the
successes of this unit. He stressed that the ‘’Green Scorpions”’ was a success
story and was growing.
Mr Mzizi raised his concerns over the inability of environmental prosecutors to
conduct criminal investigations and analyse evidence. Why did the Department
not have its own inspectors, as this would ensure it could conduct its own
investigations and lessened dependence on SAPS?
The Department intended to establish a relationship with the forensics elements
of the South African Police Services. The establishment of its own forensic
laboratory and unit would be too costly, and would thus use the SAPS to test
environmental crimes. Typically, if an illegal hazardous waste site was found
and wanted to test the soil and try trace it back to find out who may have
places such hazardous waste. Although willing to assist the unit, the
department, the SAPS expressed the need for a formal relationship to establish
a clear working relationship.
Mr L J Van Rooyen (ANC, Free State) raised his concerns over contradictory
information regarding DEAT’s bursary scheme and the targets set in both the
presentation and the 2005/2006 Annual report. The presentation made mention of
the rewarding of 50 registered learnerships and 20 fulltime bursaries; 40
part-time bursaries and 60 registered internships. Yet on page 7 of the
Department’s 2005/2006 Annual Report, it was mentioned that 32 fulltime
bursaries and 60 part-time bursaries had been granted. Such contradictory
information was confusing. Could the Department provide the correct figures on
the granting of the different bursaries and learnerships?
Dr Matlou
said that the Department took the issue of incongruency of information and
figures very seriously. The concerns of the members were noted and the
Department would review this information contained in both the presentation and
its 2005/2006 Annual Report .It would provide the Committee would the correct
details in due course.
Mr Van Rooyen asked for clarity on the different learnerships offered by the
Department. Were the learnerships focused on decreasing the skills shortage
within the Department?
This question was not answered.
Mr Van Rooyen noted the Department’s overachievement on its 42 percent target
set on its Black Economic Empowerment Scheme. Why was such a modest target? Was
this done to enhance the quality of the reporting for this financial year?
Dr Matlou responded that this was a baseline target that would gradually be
improved. In many instances, the Department needed to encourage the achievement
of these targets to ensure that senior managers understood the importance of
and how to drive the BEE process. The level of representivity of companies
procured to deliver certain functions or services for DEAT, was also
considered. The Department had always intended to gradually improve on the
targets set.
A BEE Chapter Council had been appointed in October 2005 and was currently in
its developmental phase. The instititutionalization of this Council’s work
remained a priority for better half of 2006. A recently commissioned study into
the level of black economic empowerment in large and unlisted companies, as
well as SMMEs in the tourism sector revealed that many individuals and
companies were unclear about the BEE codes of good practice. These codes also
dealt with exemptions and qualifications of SMMEs and were released in December
2006, but the DEAT had determined that those individuals or companies with a
turnover of R5 million were absolved from meeting the Charter. The absolution
certain actors within the agricultural, tourism and transport industries
remained a challenge and concern. DEAT and DTI were in continuous discussions
regarding this matter, and the Department had made its position clear on
especially sectoral determinations.
He added that Cabinet had approved the codes of good practice and had
requested that Minister of Trade and Industry, Mr Mandisi Mpahlwa, to begin the
process of gazetting these sectoral charters.
Black economic empowerment in the tourism sector, remained a work in progress.
DEAT had encouraged all government departments to promote BEE and compliance
with the Act in particular, when undertaking tourism related activities.
Although compliance with the Act was voluntary for the private sector, it was
compulsory for all government departments and entities. It had requested all
government departments to report on at least the grading of this process, and
these have begun to be submitted. Improved reporting on spending on BEE related
activities in the tourism sector were needed.
Mr Van Rooyen expressed his concerns that only nine percent of all BEE related
programmes in the DEAT, benefited women entrepreneurs. Why was this? What was
the department’s target in this regard?
This question was not answered. It should be noted that the Department would
submit written responses to those questions it could not provide immediate
responses to.
Mr Van Rooyen commented that the information regarding the DEAT’s social
responsibility programmes and Extended Public Works Programme (EPWP) was very
confusing. He said that information in different parts of the 2005/2006 Annual
Report cited figures of 50994 000 (pg9) and 75 000 (pg 18) jobs created in the
previous financial year. This needed further clarification.
Mr Van Rooyen said that page 29 of the2005/2006 Annual Report made reference to
1,39 million job days created. What did this mean?
Dr Matlou explained that a job day merely referred to an eight-hour working
day. This was differentiated from a training day, calculated on the number of
hours people spent in training, using the eight-hour working day as a base
figure. The number of people for each project under the SRPP would then be
multiplied by this figure. Such projects needed to provide both training and
temporary employment. However, participants in the SRPP projects were also
benefit from further training opportunities. The current figure was 109 000 jobs
created and not 1.39 million as earlier indicated.
Mr Van Rooyen noted that pages 9 and 18 referred to both 307 jobs and 27 000
permanent jobs created. Which figure was more accurate?
This question as not answered.
Mr Van Rooyen asked whether the discrepancy between the performance rewards
granted to band A, and bands B, C, and D could be explained? Could the standard
by which these bonuses were calculated also be clarified?
Dr Matlou responded senior management staff was divided into bands A (directors),
B (chief directors) C (Deputy directors
general), D (Directors-general). The funds allocated to level A were higher due
to the number of directors in the Department.
Mr R J Tau (ANC, Northern Cape) commented that the Department presentation
lacked provincial perspective. This showed a lack of understanding of the
mandate of the National Council of Provinces (NCOP) as one of the two Houses of
Parliament. The NCOP and its select committees served to elevate provincial
matters to a national level. Although the broad outline and simplification of
DEAT’s work was appreciated, the impact of its work on a provincial level was
needed. The provincial relevance and assessment of job creation on a provincial
level, and the impact of the bursary scheme needed a provincial perspective. He
requested the Department provide a breakdown of its work as it relates to the
provinces in the key focus areas. It should emphasise the Conditional Grants
given to provinces. Did the subsidies and transfers in its financial statements
take account of these grants? Were these transfers and subsidies related to
provinces? If not, were these grants allocated to provinces by the national
DEAT? For what purposes were provincial grants used? To what extent did these
have an impact? Could the Department also provide an assessment of how
provinces implemented their provincial plans?
Mr Van Schalkwyk suggested that an additional meeting was needed on specific
projects plus progress reports per province. This was quite a complex matter as
both National Treasury and the Extended Public Works programme also prescribed
the activities reported in the strategic plan (as a baseline). A report could
be prepared that included amount of money spent on projects per province and
performance to date.
Dr Matlou explained that transfers were only made to DEAT's public entities
such as South African Tourism. The SARRP were the main recipient of subsidies and regional levies.
Provinces would receive funds for projects that related to SARRP, as well as
the impact of the spending by South African National Parks and SAMDI in
National Parks and botanical gardens. The bulk of the money allocated to South
African Tourism was spent on marketing South Africa internationally.
Dr Matlou
acknowledged the importance of a provincial perspective of the work done by the
department, when briefing the select committees. Admittedly, the presentation
made to the members provided a mere overview of its work, and an additional
meeting with the Committee was needed to discuss and present its work as it
relates to provinces. The figures and information were available particularly
as it related to its Social responsibility and Poverty Alleviation Project,
foreign language training, especially in Chinese. Trainees were sourced from
different provinces and the statistics could be made available to the
Committee. The Department would need to make a commitment to the Committee to
provide this feedback.
Mr Lackey answered that intergovernmental cooperation between national,
provincial and local level, in matters relating to air quality management was
groundbreaking. National-Provincial Air Quality Officers Forum as well as the
Provincial- Municipal Air Quality Officers Forum meet quarterly to discuss air
quality issues of provincial/national and provincial/municipal importance
respectively. He added that the national department was also represented at the
on the provincial/municipal air quality officers forum. It was thus clear that communication coordination
between the three spheres of government was apparent. An annual Air Quality
Lekgotla was also held during which air quality managers from across the
country discuss issues of air quality management. The inaugural session was
held the previous year, with a good attendance.
He reminded the Committee that one of the most contentious issues at the time
of debating t he Air Quality Bill was the capacity to implement and enforce the
legislation. The attendance of over 200 delegates at the lekgotla, indicated to
a steady build up of this capacity.
Presently, only Kwazulu-Natal, Gauteng and the Western Cape, had
provincial/municipal air quality for and structure in place. These provinces
had a good working relationship with provinces. Since provinces such as the
Northern Cape and the Northwest did not suffer dramatic air quality problems,
they were not expected to set similar fora. Mpumalanga was likely to be
declared the second national priority area concerning air pollution in near
future, and should therefore establish a provincial/municipal air management
officers fora. Provincial and municipal coordination was very important if
these bodies and initiatives were to work effectively.
Mr Lukey answered that R20 million had been raised by the Environmental Quality
and Protection Unit, in the DEAT, to transfer to provinces to assist in mainly
the backlogs in environmental impact assessments (EIAs). Certain problems had
faced great backlogs, since these provinces had big developments on their
books, which they had not been able to clear. While companies were awaiting
feedback on these assessments, many provinces lacked the capacity to undertake
EIAs. Funds had therefore been raised, with assistance form the National
Treasury, to assist in clearing these backlogs.
The
Chairperson reminded the Department that the Committee had raised their
concerns over the lack of capacity to undertake and complete EIAs during a
meeting with the Department the previous year. This meant that big projects,
including developments required for the 2010 Soccer World Cup, would be unduly
delayed. Greater clarity about this issue was needed.
Mr Lukey replied that the Department had taken the concerns raised by the
Committee at that meeting very seriously. It had responded to these concerns in
very specific ways, important of which were to provide clear guidelines and
directions on the workings of EIA regulations. For instance petrol stations had
to be provided with national guidelines on how the regulations worked. Highly
technical developments were also being delayed at a provincial level because
many of the structures lacked technical expertise to complete these
assessments. Rather than reaching premature conclusions, the department had
stalled the process to investigate these situations carefully. Support lent to
provinces related to these issues. National department had identified specific
problems and had instructed provinces to clear backlogs. He reiterated that the
department had a clear understanding of why backlogs existed and would provide
the necessary assistance to provinces to clear these. The total amount of funds
transferred to the provinces was available, and would be provided to the
Committee.
Its investigation into the delays and backlogs of EIAs was continuous and would
provide resources, where necessary to speed-up the process. The Department, due
to a decision by the cement industry to burn hazardous waste in cement kilns,
as an alternative fuel, decided in such national issues, a national policy
needed to be developed, since burning certain types of waste would lead to
pollutants that were internationally controlled. This example affected seven
provinces where this kind of initiative had been targeted. The Northwest
province would not allow hazardous waste to be burnt in these kilns and
therefore refused the conducting of an EIA. This practices was becoming a
problem in the Northern Cape, Eastern Cape, Gauteng and Western Cape. It was
decided that, as an interim measure, the national department would consider the
complex EIAs. Where there is a potential of lack of uniformity, in decision
making and also where there are instances where national departments know that
provincial counterparts would not have the capacity to conduct a proper
assessment, the national department was assisting by either taking these to the
national department which was a limited area or by lending support directly to
provinces to help them deal with these matters.
The Chairperson said that he was not satisfied with the answer, and requested
the Department to provide a written response.
Mr Lukey replied that a report was already being developed. Support to
provinces formed part of a capacity building programme for provinces, and
progress was reported on a monthly basis. This report would be made available
to the Committee.
Mr A Watson (DA, Mpumalanga) asked whether the Air Pollution Act had a bearing
on EIAs. Since Mpumalanga, with its mines, power stations and saw mills, was
considered a second national priority area in terms of air pollution, would the
Air Pollution Act outline guidelines on how such interactions should take
place? This week a sawmill was shut down in Barberton due to the actions of a
councillor rather that provincial or national department. This councillor
contested the company and its pollution. It turned out the sawmill could not
afford to adjust the operation to comply. Such issues needed to be looked at.
Mr Lukey explained that EIAs was the one stop decision making process of
environmental protection”. The following areas were views as pollution
hotspots:
Vaal triangle Air shirt (South Johannesburg, to the Northern Free state) and
was managed by the national air quality officer in conjunction with municipal
counterparts. An air quality national plan is in development and the department
had bought six air quality-monitoring stations to monitor the area in that
area. The second priority area was Ekhuhuleni, Witbank and Secunda. Studies
from the University of the Witwatersrand and the Air pollution service indicated that this was the second priority
area. National hotspots were areas that extended beyond provincial boundaries.
Other potential provincial hotspots were Brits, Rustenburg, Western Cape (the
broader Cape Town Area, South Durban and Durban itself, Richards Bay was seen
as an emerging pollution hotspot. These
were areas of pollution that could potentially threaten people’s health and
well-being. It was added that there would always be localized air pollution
problems be it from a sawmill in Barberton or a neighbour burning compost.
Although the impact of these may seem insignificant, those individuals in
closer proximity could be negatively affected.
Municipalities, for these reasons, must be empowered to implement their
constitutional mandate. Constitutionally, air pollution was a municipal function.
Although, at national level legislative planning could be done, the
implementation should occur at a municipal level.
A review of
the major industries’ certifiction in Mpumalanga would start and would be
tightened up where necessary to make these more enforceable. This would occur
in the next 6-24 months.
Mr van Rooyen, focusing on conditional grant payments to municipalities, wanted
to know what monitoring mechanism the Department had in place to ensure that
these grants were used purposefully and optimally.
Mr Tau said that the Department had made a commitment in 2004, at the time when
no legislative framework existed to guide the establishment of cooperatives in
provinces. The Department had made a commitment to explore the idea of
cooperatives especially as it related to the development of rural tourism
development as part of its local economic development approach. The key issues
would have been the provision of support to cooperatives and not only at
conceptual level but also committing resources. He added that since 2004, a
legislative framework had been developed and had come into effect.
Dr Matlou answered that that the development of cooperatives were part of the
overall study of matters relating to the second economy. A study conducted with
the Human Sciences Research Council (HSRC), explored the development of
cooperatives. Also, the department had transferred funds to the Tourism
Enterprise Fund, as well as the tourism enterprise development. R3 million had
also been allocated to the Open Africa agency to explore and develop different
tourist routes. A variety of SMMEs in each route would then be brought together
and marketed. This would ensure a more even distribution of the benefits of the
level of tourism. The national department would spearhead the effective
marketing of these routes. Since a workshop regarding this issue had been held
the previous year, seventeen more workshops had been held. With the agreement
of FIFA, non-hotel accommodation would be promoted during the 2010 Soccer World
Cup. The promotion of groups of two hundred non-hotel accommodation would
ensure that both urban hotels and small businesses benefit from increased
tourism. Satellite towns such as George as well as accommodation there would
also be promoted during the tournament, and scheduled flights would be offered
to host cities.
This
remained a work in progress, and Minister Van Schalkwyk, to start the
negotiations with FIFA. DEAT was responsible for the development of more
B&Bs. It would work closely with the tourism enterprise programme as well
as the Tourism Grading Council of South Africa, in this regard.
Mr Tau said that the development of local economies with specific emphasis on
building cooperatives could not merely be regarded as part of the development
of the second economy. The specific programmes and plans needed to be provided.
These cooperatives did not necessarily refer to increased growth of the Garden
Route, but also referred to ways to build the capacity of places such as Xunu,
in the Eastern Cape, to ensure that these areas were transformed into tourist
attractions. As part of the intergovernmental relations, provinces needed to
monitor how municipal authorities were encouraging the creation of
cooperatives. The development of cooperatives were sometimes confused with the
promotion and development of SMME’s. These were distinct entities and
contributing towards the development of the historically disadvantaged by
absorbing them into the mainstream economy. This issue was also raised in 2004,
when enquiring about the extent to which a budget had been set aside to bring
people to understand the concept of cooperatives. It could happen that the
cooperatives could turn out to be the development of SMME’s. Could the
Department explain what the pitfalls of the development of cooperatives were?
Ms H Matlanyane (ANC, Limpopo Province) said that the Department had stated
that 1.15 percent of the Department was represented by people with disability.
The Employment Equity Act stated that Departments needed to be 2 percent
representatives of people with disability. What were the challenges the
Department faced in achieving this 2 percent target? This was a similar
challenged faced by most departments.
Dr Matlou answered that the Department had gone through a review of the
vacancies of the department had had designated certain posts for these with
disabilities. The Department was currently still below the 2 percent target but
it remained a work in progress.
Ms Matlanyane expressed her concern regarding the slow finalization of
disciplinary cases. She sad that only 45 percent of such cases had been
settled. Is this slow progress not hampering the work of the Department?
This question was not answered.
Ms B N Dlulane (ANC, Eastern Cape) requested clarification on the requirements
of section 41 (E) PFMA (1999). Should annual reports be submitted to the
National Assembly only? .
Mr Ackerman answered that the PFMA only stated that since the DEAT was a
national department, the annual report should only be submitted to the National
Assembly.
Mr Adams
replied that the national departments were supposed to submit the annual
reports to the national parliament, of which the NCOP formed part. Mr Tau asked
whether the stipulations of the PFMA or the requirements of the constitutions
took precedence. The executive was accountable to parliament, and parliament
constituted of two houses; the NA and the NCOP. This context needed to be
placed in a constitutional perspective, and then clarified.
The Chairperson requested the Department to clarify this matter.
Dr Matlou apologised for the error made by the DEAT. The PFMA stipulated that
an accounting officer for a department, trading entity or constitutional
authority must in case of a submit to parliament and therefore to both the
National Assembly and the National Council of Provinces.
Mr Ackermann added that he would correct this error in the next report.
Ms Dlulane asked why the Department’s audit committee had resigned? Could
reasons be supplied?
Mr Ackerman
answered that members of the audit committee were appointed for a period of two
years, but only two members had resigned prior to the end of the two-year term.
The minister would then appoint a new committee.
Ms Dlulane said that the Annual report referred to the resignation of the audit
committee. What were the reasons for this resignation?
Mr Ackermann replied that the members cited work pressure as a reason for their
resignation. Subsequent to these resignations, the term of the audit committee
expired. A new committee was then appointed.
Mr Van Schalkwyk (Chief Director: TFCAPA) said that the Department accepted
responsibility for the delay in appointing a new audit committee. This would
not be repeated again.
Ms Dlulane wanted to know the weaknesses of the Department’s control systems,
cited by the Auditor-general. What mechanisms had been developed to rectify
these weaknesses.
This question was not answered.
Ms Dlulane cited the R81.6 million irregular expenditure cited by the
Department. Could this be explained?
Mr Ackermann explained that this referred to the contractual payments for line
items such as its enterprise development programme. This item had originally
been captured under goods and services, but the Auditor-general had advised
that these payments should be listed under transfer payments. This listing then
was merely a matter of economic classification, and NT needed to approve this
irregular expenditure.
Mr Van
Rooyen asserted that certain obligations, contained in the PFMA, governed the
transfer of funds. The department, by declaring the funds under goods and
services opted for an instant solution. This seemed like ‘’creative
accounting”. However, the Select Committee on Public Accounts would deal with
this matter.
Referring to the increase of consultancy fees, from R96 million to R106
million, Mr Van Rooyen, requested a written explanation for this recurrent
problem. Did the challenges faced by the Department, this persistent level
expenditure on consultants?
Mr Van Rooyen noted that travel costs had increased from R26 million to R40
million. Why and to where were officials travelling? The Department spent money
at a frightening pace.
A written explanation was needed for the rise in travel costs.
Ms Dlulane noted the non-compliance of provinces to submit performance and
management information plans to the Department.
This was a persistent problem. What was the department doing to induce
compliance?
Mr Ackermann
answered that the Minister had extended the submission date. This would not be
repeated. It was predicted that this matter would not appear on their
statements again.
Ms Dlulane reiterated that this should not have occurred. Could reasons be
supplied for this oversight?
This
question was not answered.
Mr F Adams
(ANC, Western Cape) noted that the Director-general of DEAT , Ms Pam Yako, had
not yet met with the Committee since her appointment. The Committee had made a
decision, the previous year to issue such an invitation. Did the Department
recognize the NCOP as the a house of parliament? DEAT’s website merely cited
the portfolio committee’s members and not those of the select committee. The
erroneous reference made to the Select Committee as “Standing Committee”
reflected the Department’s disregard for the NCOP. This should not merely be
accepted as a printing error.
Mr Adams wondered if the BEE strategy for the tourism sector was successful.
Members had attended a workshop, during which township tours and the intention
to market township tourism were unveiled with much fanfare. It should also be
recalled that the minister, committing himself to these ventures, had slept in
a bed and breakfast in Soweto. However, despite such initiatives, hotel chains
such as Southern Sun International and Protea Hotels were still being branded
and marketed by the Department. Although the Committee appreciated the
contributions made by these established business to the tourism sector,
township marketing was neglected. Hotels discouraged tourists from visiting
townships, and therefore these communities were not benefiting from an influx
of tourists, especially in the Western Cape. Campaigns such as the Sho't Left
campaign had merely disappeared. Could the department explain to the Committee
the current situation?
Dr Matlou responded that closer cooperation between national, provincial and
local government was needed in the marketing of townships as an attraction.
Although there had been many marketing campaigns, the funds allocated to the
Department and thus South African Tourism was largely spent on marketing South
Africa, internationally. The nine provincial authorities were responsible for
highlighting and promoting specific attractions of each province.
Municipalities and local authorities, if resources allowed, would then have to
market specific attractions in particular districts. Budgetary restraints and discrepancies were a
huge challenge as some metros had bigger budgets than smaller municipalities.
Moreover, certain provinces such as the Northern Cape, had smaller budgets than
metros.
Although the Intergovernmental Relations and Framework Act governed much of the
departments work, duplication of work and activities needed to be reduced. This
would improve intergovernmental relations. A management meeting held the
previous day, had resolved to develop strategies to streamline the work of
national, provincial and local departments. Issues relating to international
marketing had been discussed by the Cabinet Lekgotla the previous week.
Issues relating to township marketing were viewed as part of the general
discussion on the work of the second economy, and this initiative could
potentially benefit many South Africans. This warranted closer investigation.
The office of the deputy president had tasked the DEAT to promote and work on
this issue. Government had agreed that the DTI should lead this process and the
DEAT would streamline its work in relation to DTI. It had asked South African Tourism to look at
matters relating to second economy marketing, which included township
marketing.
It had asked South African Tourism to look at this issue of second economy
marketing. Current tourists guides needed to be equipped with unique selling
points. Foreign language training would enhance their competitiveness. The
Department had enlisted the assistance of Chinese, French and Spanish officials
in the training of guides in these three languages. 34 tourist guides had
completed preliminary training in Spanish. This foreign language training would
prepare guides for the 2010 Soccer World Cup. DEAT was aware that Germany, host
of the previous world cup, had guides trained in each of the official languages
of the participating countries. There was a shortage of black tourist guides
especially those skilful in foreign languages. After the group had learnt
Chinese from February 2005 to January 2006, they had been to China last year
from August to September. The Department together with the office of the deputy
president was trying to develop more skills, apart from the tourist guiding
skills needed. This would make these individuals more marketable.
Mr Adams expressed his alarm at the 31 percent vacancy rate in the Department.
What could be the reasons for this? President Mbeki always highlighted the
importance of service delivery. How could the department deliver on its
targets, if such a high vacancy rate was apparent? How could this Department
deliver and carry out its mandate if such a situation persisted? People
employed in the Department had even left the Department due to the appointment
process, when vacancies were apparent.
Dr Matlou answered that the vacancy rate in the Department at one stage had
been 25, but had increased to 31 following an institutional review. He conceded
that the current vacancy rate could result in underperformance, but the
Department remained committed to filling these vacancies as soon as possible.
It had quickened the recruitment process; including setting timelines and
working closely with the corporate affairs officials to ensure that the level
of vacancies was reduced and the pace of filling posts were increased.
Regarding the irregularities in the appointment of officials, Dr Matlou
responded that when information regarding specific incidences could be
provided, the department would be able make a comment. The Department would
then consult with its corporate affairs department to consult with Parliament
on this issue. The Department took note of the concerns raised by the
Department in this regard and admits to the seriousness of the situation.
Mr Adams
said that the Departments reference to a R12 million savings on its budget was
unacceptable. Members of Parliament had voted for budgets that were intended to
be spent by Departments. Departments, in turn pleaded with parliamentary
committees to approve respective budgets. Yet at the end of each financial
year, it was reported that departments’ had not delivered on nor spent budgets.
The DEAT needed to delivery on critical issues, and its ‘’savings’’ was
unacceptable. Members would be more understanding, if an over-expenditure,
however unacceptable, was reported.
Dr Matlou noted that the department could have overspent rather than under
spent on its budget. The Department had indicated that out of a budget of
almost R2 billion , it had under spent by R7 million.
The Chairperson asked whether the R12 million was a saving or an under
expenditure, as indicated in the presentation?
Mr R Ackerman answered that this R12 million referred to committed funds that
was not yet spent. This amount had been rolled-over to the next financial year.
Although this reference to savings was confusing, it should be appreciated that
the Department had spent 99.6 percent of its budget. Merely, 0.4 percent of
this budget remained unspent.
The Chairperson responded that the word “savings” was not an appropriate term,
given the explanation by Mr Ackermann. There could be no savings and money
needed to be spent to the last point.
Mr Adams reiterated that if the Department were to overspend or under spent, it
needed to face the consequences too. Departments were required to spend their
entire respective budgets, irrespective of its size.
Mr Adams given the recent muggings in Kirstenbosch Gardens, and Tafelberg, and
the level of poaching, the Green Scorpions were not visible. Could the Department
explain where these officials were and an explanation of their current
activities? Since members were committed
and serious about service delivery, government departments were required to be
so too. He said that the president’s state of the nation addresses; the budget
votes as well as the approval of budgets by parliamentary committees were
senseless if service delivery was not improved upon. This was unacceptable.
Mr Lukey responded that was not a policing unit, and did not intend to replace
the police. The unit worked in
partnership with the SAPS rather than in competition as the latter would merely
complicate its work. Such assistance was needed especially in situations of
danger, in which environmental inspectors could not defend themselves. No formal
working agreement between the unit and SAPS currently existed and this could
impact on the safety of inspectors when conducting investigations. He added
that the relationship with the SAPS needed to be to ensure that environmental
crimes could be reported at police stations. A memorandum of understanding with
the SAPS would strengthen the work of the SAPS.
At this
stage, there is no formal agreement for such cooperation and this puts the se
inspectors in harms way. DEAT had an excellent relationship with the SAPS, but
this relationship should be extended so that people could report environmental
crimes at police stations. Currently, at the moment unless people report to the
Department or provincial departments, the police would not know what to deal with
these issues. For example complaint about noise, or burning leaves, the police
could not deal with such reports of environmental crimes. The Department would
like to change such a situation to strengthen the partnership with SAPS and
therefore could immediately the SAPS when receiving such complaint could refer
to the environmental management inspectorate and thus the best trained people
could therefore report on it. This would
not reduce the effectiveness of the inspectorate and it is intended that the
memorandum of understanding with the South African police service could
strengthen the work done.
The Department intended to establish a relationship with the forensics elements
of the South African Police Services. The establishment of its own forensic laboratory
and unit would be too costly, and would thus use the SAPS to test environmental
crimes. Typically, if an illegal hazardous waste site was found and wanted to
test the soil and try trace it back to find out who may have places such
hazardous waste. Although willing to assist the unit, the department, the SAPS
expressed the need for a formal relationship to establish a clear working
relationship.
Environmental Management Inspectorate did not prosecute crime. It investigated
crimes and would then hand the case down to a prosecutor who would then need to
present the case in court. South Africa had very few environmental prosecutors,
and this impacted negatively on the ability to fight well-compiled and
investigated cases in courts. Prosecutors who were not familiar with
environmental law, and despite a thorough briefing around such issues posed a
challenge. A new prosecuting training course for prosecutors in Kwazulu-Natal,
Mpumalanga and the northwest had been developed. These trained prosecutors of
each province in the methods of managing environmental crimes cases. Thirty-six
prosecutors had attended, and showed great enthusiasm for the prosecution of
environmental crimes. This would ensure that the prosecutors managing cases
would be familiar with issues faced, with the assistance of the Department of
Justice and Constitutional Development.
The growth of the Environmental Protectorate exceeded expectations. Over 800
accredited environmental inspectors were currently in the field. These
individuals had survived a tough SETA accredited training course, which
required a 75 percent to pass the final examinations. Inspectors were highly trained in terms of
investigation, environmental law as well as additional specialized training in
specific fields like poaching. Training in enforcement challenges around
poaching in national parks, reinvigorated officials.
Due to the work of this unit, the Department had won all twenty-court cases
lodged against it. It was true that that the unit chose to investigate and
follow the easier cases as this unit was too young to have too many failures.
The 100 percent success rate, would promote compliance. This would only be
achieved if the public believed that if the unit accepted a case, it would not
lose. The unit built very strong cases and demanded a jail sentence. At this
point a process of plea-bargaining would be entered into and the Department
could gain more victories that had real environmental benefits. This could also
include the planting of indigenous trees as part of a sentence.
The ‘’Green Scorpions, although established, were still in a small number. The
unit’s successes were not popularised enough, although the unit had been
unveiled with much fanfare. The Department needed to focus on highlighting the
successes of this unit. He stressed that the ‘’Green Scorpions”’ was a
success-story and was growing.
The Chairperson said that the Department should answer these concerns in the
responses. Members of parliament were being lashed by ordinary South Africans
in their respective constituency on issues raised by Members, as well as, how
government planned on dealing with these concerns. The Committee had expressed
a commitment to be much more vigilant in interrogating the work and performance
of Departments.
Dr P Matlou responded that the delegation had listened very carefully to the
concerns raised by the Committee. The department would try to clarify a number
of issues raised by Members during the process of the meeting but would need,
if the Committee approved, provide detailed response to other issues.
Mr Van Rooyen raised his concerns over the ten-month delay in appointing a new
audit committee. Why was this? He added
that this delay could explain the observations made by the auditor general are
report.
Mr Van
Rooyen stressed that the outsourcing of the functions of the audit committee to
another company was mind-boggling. What
were the total costs of this outsourcing? Could reasons be supplied for this
decision? Did the Department not have faith in its own audit committee?
Mr van Schalkwyk (Chief Director: Transfrontier Conservation Areas) said that
the Department took full responsibility for the ten-month delay in appointing a
new audit committee and assured the committee that this would not happen again.
The internal audit function had been outsourced, and not the functions of the
audit committee. The internal control function reports directly to the director
general and the audit committee reports to the minister.
Mr Van Rooyen said that the responses made by the Department were confusing. Ms
Dlulane also expressed her dissatisfaction with the responses. Could the Department supply the reason for a
10-month delay, in the appointment of new audit committee. Why was this process
stalled?
Mr Van Rooyen asked what the function of the audit committee was, since the
internal audit function had been outsourced.
The Chairperson asked what progress had been made regarding the policy
development for aquaculture policy.
Dr M Moyekiso (Deputy Director-general: Marine Conservation management) replied
Minister Van Schalwyk had approved the aquaculture policy the previous year.
This was gazetted towards the end of 2006; public comments had been invited and
subsequently received. These comments would be incorporated into a draft
policy. The DEAT would present this document to MINTEC in March, and then
MinMEC in June. The policy would be ready subsequent to this process.
The Chairperson asked how the department differentiated between marine
aquaculture and Finland breeding of Aquaculture as well as the policy for the
inland breeding of fish. Is this within the domain of the agricultural
department as it has a bearing on these three departments?
Dr Mayekiso confirmed that the departments of Water Affairs and Forestry,
Environmental Affairs and Tourism as well as Agriculture and Land Affairs, had
a common interest in aquaculture. Two kinds of aquaculture could be discerned:
fresh water aquaculture (rivers and dams) and marine aquaculture, which
involved the breeding of marine species in salt water. In both instances the
Department of Water Affairs and Forestry’s involvements was required to ensure
that water resources were not contaminated and compromised. The Department of
Agriculture and Land Affairs administered and managed fresh water aquaculture.
The Chairperson requested data regarding the increase of black tour guides. Was
the number really increasing?
The Chairperson said that the DEAT informed the Committee that hunting norms
and standards had been developed. Could the Department elaborate on this?
This question was not answered.
Mr van Schalkwyk explained that alien
invasive species also concerned wild life species. The department was working
closely with neighbouring countries. As constructive conservation areas were
being developed, these areas needed to be managed properly. What South Africa
intended doing as far as the bio diversity is concerned is to make sure that it
is applicable to the neighbouring countries.
Mr van Schalwyk explained that Conditional Grants was part of the Division of
Revenue Act (DORA) for provinces. The Department had not yet made such
transfers to provinces, but could in the next financial year to assist
provinces in dealing with EIA backlogs. The DEAT remained discussions with
National Treasury about this matter.
Mr van Schalkwyk answered that regulation of National Treasury allowed for a 2
percent over-and /or under expenditure. Viewed comparatively, the department
was managing its expenditure very well. It would like to spend 100 percent of
its budget, however given the size, this goal was quite difficult to achieve.
Mr Ackermann answered that the audit committee was constituted in accordance
with the regulations of the PFMA. It was
therefore prescribed that the department have an audit committee. This
committee had to look at the effectiveness of internal controls, the quality of
the monthly and quarterly reports to be submitted, and it must evaluate the
annual financial statements. The
internal audit component conducted the groundwork for the committee. The
department also provided the monthly reports to the audit committee to enable
them to be able to do the evaluations.
Dr Matlou answered that the department may have to provide more detailed
reports regarding the cooperatives. Through the tourism Enterprise programme
the Department begun to work with tourism associations in different parts of
the country. Working through the Open Africa programme as well, the DTI, to
unite the groups and enterprises, but not in cooperatives. The department would
consult the DTI and Agriculture regarding this matter and would provide
feedback in due course to find out whether the second economy strategy could be
linked to the issues around cooperatives. He added that BEE gave a voice to the
smaller actors in the industry.
Mr Tau acknowledged the commitment made by the Department to provide the
necessary information regarding its work in provinces. He emphasised the strategic role of the NCOP
and select committees as this House of Parliament elevated provincial and local
matters to a national level. It was the space in which both local, provincial
and national government meet to discuss and debate issues of mutual importance.
The minister, in the forms of debate and questions, would thus gain an
appreciation of the most pertinent issues faced by provinces. The department
needed to be mindful of this strategic role.
Regarding the R640 million the department received for the EPWP, Mr van Rooyen
requested a detailed written explanation and progress reports on these projects
in each province. The construction of the Kgalagadi road, although started
three years ago, was still not completed. These concerns were also raised at
the previous meeting with the DEAT, the previous year.
Ms Dlulane wondered how many rural nodes the DEAT had identified. The
Department did not supply the necessary comparative details, but merely stated
that rural nodes had been achieved.
Could the Department provide cleared details, including the challenges faced in
this regard?
This question was not answered.
Dr Matlou requested the Committee’s permission to provide more detailed and
written feedback on the questions raised Members. These would be provided to
the Committee in due course.
Before adjourning the meeting, the Chairperson requested the Committee to
nominate a member to Chairperson the second part of the proceedings.
Mr Adams nominated Mr Tau, with the agreement of the rest of the Committee.
Marine Living Resources Fund: presentation by the DEAT
Mr Abdullah Ismail (Chief Financial Officer: Marine Living Resources)
delivered the presentation.
The MLRF was established in terms of the Marine Living Resources Act (MLRF) of
1998. As the fund generated its own income, these sources of income included
levies on fish products, licence fees and permits, fines and confiscations,
harbour fees and transfers from the DEAT. Personnel expenditure was funded by
the vote of the department.
The Office of the CFO had experienced the following challenges since 2002 to 2005/2006 financial year. Revenue
into the fund had been erratic over the 2002, 2003 and 2004. Operating expenses
had increased significantly. Annual increases for 2003 and 2004 and 2005 had
been 25 percent, 27 percent and 50 percent respectively. Cost control had been
historically poor and debtors had increased significantly. There was no proper
budgeting or budget control process and general accounting principles had not
been adhered to.
Achievements of the office of the CFO included the appointment of a full-time
CFO; the completion of four years of audit reports and the publication of an
audit report. Legal action had been
instituted against previous developers of the failed financial system, Treasury
reports had been submitted timeously and debt collectors had been appointed.
Spending trends in 2005/2006 financial year were as follows: 35 percent of
total expenditure had been on the costs of maintaining vessels. The DEAT had
transferred R501 million for the purchase of four new compliance vessels - two
commissioned in 2004/2005 financial year
and the remainder two delivered in 2005/2006. R38 million would be transferred
over the 2004-2007 for the Langebaan Coastal erosion project. R108 million had
been allocated for the replacement of the research vessel Sardinops and
delivery was expected in March 2007.
Total expenditure for the current financial year was R375 million.
All four auditor-general reports indicated to the following: lack of internal
controls, lack of compliance with the PFMA, the lack of proper accounting and
fixed asset system and the failure to adhere to the principles of accrual
accounting. The Department’s audit committee reports found that internal
controls had not been effective; was unable to review the quality of the monthly
and quarterly reports.
2005 Long Term Fishing Rights Allocation: briefing
Dr Monde Mayekiso (Deputy Director General: MCM) delivered the
presentation.
Trends in the catch of hake, West Coast Rock Lobster as well as Pilchard
indicated to the migration of marine resources to the East Coast. This shift in the distribution of marine
resources, held negative implications for job creation and poverty alleviation.
It meant that transport system for transporting fish would rise from R80
million to R750 million per annum. Factories would need to be relocated and
therefore diminished economic activity along the West Coast.
The Marine Living resources Act provided a framework to change the pre-1994
allocation of fishing rights. At that time there had been fewer quota holders
while one group had been dominant. Established industry had also been highly
resistant to changes. However, since 1994 there had been an increase in the
number of participants in the fishing industry. These rights allocations were
small, with less than 1000 tons each. This lead to complaints that these
allocations were non-viable.
The policy objectives of long term fishing rights included job creation,
investment, transformation and sustainability. Criteria for this allocation
included performance and the rate of transformation. Certain challenges of this
process included resource constraints, the large number of applications and
business versus social considerations.
The Department was currently conducting public consultation meetings to both
accelerate the development of draft subsistence fisheries policy as well as an
accelerated development of aquaculture policy. It had also initiated a process
of determining economic opportunities in fishing harbours.
Discussion
Mr Watson noted the erroneous reference to the Committee as the
“Standing Committee" on the DEAT presentation. Dr Matlou expressed his
apologies for this oversight.
Mr Watson was concerned about the negative impact the tracking devices on boats
would have on fishing rights. What was the motivation behind this new
regulation?
Dr Mayekiso explained that each vessel was required to carry a vessel
monitoring system, the VMA. It was the stance of the Department that, if any
person wanted to participate in the fishing industry, a vessel needed to be
equipped with a vessel monitoring system.
The Department acknowledged the high cost of this devise (R80 000) and some
fishermen had complained that, since their businesses were not yielding
sufficient profits, installation of the VMS was unaffordable. This posed a
challenge, as the department did not have sufficient personnel capacity to
track each vessel. The quota holder needed to bear some of the cost of
maintaining an electronic tracking system and this also caused a high level of
dissatisfaction.
Mr Van Rooyen wanted to know how the allocation criteria for fishing quotas
were developed.
Dr Mayekiso explained that two models were used for the allocation of quotas.
One could either develop a benchmark or follow a charter in which an external
benchmark was set. One could also
allocate quotas based on how better a fishery compared to other contenders
without using an external benchmark. Therefore, if a company performed better
in terms of the level of internal transformation, it could get a bigger quota
relative to other applicants. This was the current model used.
Mr Van Rooyen wondered what the purpose of the verification of applications
was. What needed to be verified?
This question was not answered.
Mr Van Rooyen requested more information about the DEAT’s advisory committee.
Who constituted this committee and what was its function?
This question was not answered.
Mr Adams explained that his constituency comprise mostly fishermen (including
Kalk Bay, Hout Bay) and had expressed concern and dissatisfaction over the
allocation process for fishing rights. There was evidence that people who were
not fishermen possessed fishing quotas. Much fanfare accompanied the imbizos
the department held with fishing communities and the assurances made by
Minister Van Schalkwyk that fishing rights would be properly allocated to those
people whose livelihoods depended on fishing. However, this was not the case,
as fishermen were being denied quotas and thus the increasing impoverishment of
these communities. The department had not lived up to its promises.
Dr Mayekiso explained that as marine resources were low, fishing quotas could
not be awarded to all applicants. Although, smaller quotas could have been
allocated to a larger population of people, these quantities would not have
encouraged the start of small business. Little opportunity for the development
of small and medium enterprises would therefore exist, as investment
opportunities would be minimal. One cannot a adequate fishing boat, one only
had an allocation of 300 kg. The Department, after the conclusion of a case
study, was convinced that quota’s awarded needed to be large enough so as to
promote the creation of small businesses. This remained an ongoing debate.
Mr Adams informed the department that officials from the verification unit, had
not had any contact with fishermen, including these in Kalk Bay, Hout Bay and
Yzerfontein. How could a acceptable verification process be conducted if officials were
interacting with fishermen? This placed suspicion on the reliability of the
unit’s work.
This question was not answered.
Mr Adams said that women, although possessing the required he necessary medical
documentation, and sea capability certificates, were denied fishing quotas. When
affected people appealed, as revealed by someone in the MCM, they were
intimidated for approaching a member of Parliament to write the appeal on their
behalf. This issue was raised with the minister and a response was still
pending. He added the attitude of MCM officials towards the fishermen left much
to be desired.
Mr Adams voiced his dissatisfaction at the level of spending on consultants,
while the performance of the department had lagged. These consultants were former DEAT employees
and were earning much more currently as consultants of MCM. Given the financial disarray some statements
had reflected in the past, whey were these consultants still be employed? This was unacceptable.
Mr Mzizi requested clarity on the relationship between job creation and the
reservation of inshore fishing rights for 40 meters for micro businesses as
stipulated in the long term fishing rights, in its policy objectives.
Dr Mayekiso answered that shallow water, with a depth of less than forty
meters, were reserved for small quota owners. These were people with limited
fishing rights of less than 750kg.
Commercial fishing companies would be allowed to fish offshore depths of
more than forty metres. He added that the coastal part of the ocean were
reserved for smaller vessels. Fishing in deeper waters by these vessels would
pose a security risk. This stipulation was not contradicting the DEAT’s efforts
to create employment. As 20 percent of the marine resources were in shallow
waters, big fishing companies such as Oceana, could not be permitted to also
fish in this zone. This 20 percent was set aside for fishermen using smaller
and less capital-intensive vessels.
Mr Mzizi asked whether any penalties would be incurred, if small quota owners
fished in offshore.
Dr Mayekiso answered that the department’s inspectors would monitor this
situation. For the fishing of lobster, the ocean had been divided into zones.
Quotas were allocated according to these zones and could only fish in these
zones. Inspectors needed to ensure that different quota holders fish in their
designated zones. Inspectors were also aware of who was permitted to catch in
shallow and deep waters in a specific zone. This differentiation is based on a
scientific model based on how many marine resources were available in deeper
water.
Mr Van Rooyen requested the Department to provide the Committee with a detailed
response regarding the R73 million that were spent of professional and special
services. What did these comprise and who were the beneficiaries?
Mr Van Rooyen also sought further clarity regarding the special operating
services of R90 million.
Mr Ismail informed the Committee that Department would submit written responses
would be forwarded to the committee secretary.
Mr Van Rooyen raised his concerns
regarding the R19 million indicated as “Other” expenses. It would be preferred
if the department could provide Members with a detailed written explanation on
this item.
Mr Van Rooyen expressed his concerns regarding the migration of fish from the
West Coast. What measures were the Department developing to ensure that those
traditionally fishing communities would not suffer under unemployment and
poverty. Could the department investigate the idea of relocating these
communities to ensure that their livelihoods were not lost? This migration
could result in a serious social problem. How did the Department envisage
resolving this issue?
Dr Mayekiso conceded that the migration of fish posed a serious problem. The
department intended to publish the reality that the West coast fishing had been
serious affected by this phenomenon. Department had recognized the need for
government interventions in this regard. However, these interventions should
not merely be the responsibility of the DEAT. Historically, the fishermen of
the West coast had relied on marine resources as a livelihood, while the land
in this area was not conducive to agricultural development. Marine resources
such as pilchards, and rock lobster had migrated and therefore the need for
alternative means of living. Thus the need for government intervention.
Aquaculture may provide some assistance, but the development of aqua cultural
businesses was timeous. DEAT could merely provide maximum opportunities on
projects such as eco-tourism, and the speedy development of aquaculture.
Mr Adams suggested that the development of marine aquaculture should be further
investigated, in the context of this migration of fish. The resettlement of
certain communities would impact these communities. Had the department looked
at these possibilities? Was there a possible programme of action being
developed regarding this issue? The breeding of, for instance, crayfish,
lobsters or oysters were possible solution to the implication of the migration
of fish.
Dr Mayekiso responded that the Department was currently working very hard to
develop a policy aimed at the growth and development of aquaculture. This
industry had enjoyed a steady growth period over the past few years. Compared
to the 600 tons of wild abalone caught in 1996, this same amount had been
currently harvested worldwide. There had thus been a steady growth in the
cultivation of sea animals. Although this growth was not a response to to the
depletion of wild abalone resources. In
DEAT believed that the pace of growth of this industry in South Africa was not
satisfactory and was now engaged in projects aimed at speeding up the growth of
the industry.
Mr Adams raised his concerns over the costly nature of vessels purchased by the
department. A recent newspaper article had highlighted that due to a lack of
funding, these vessels could not be operated. This impacted on the ability to
safeguard the coastline from poachers. On a recent visit to Elandbaai and
Paternoster, poachers were poaching and selling crayfish for R8 to R10 each, in
the presence of sea fisheries inspectors. Why can an operating budget not be
extended to ensure that these vessels were utilised to guard shorelines. The
purpose of these vessels was to patrol the coast for poaching activities.
Inspectors, at Rooi-els were merely surveying these poachers and shorelines
without acting. This could not persist, as government needed to take action
against poachers. Poachers were also depleting the livelihoods of other people.
Mr Ismail answered that the fund had acquired five vessels five years ago,
which included also comprised four or five vessels, five year ago that had also
comprised vessels of a low calibre vessels, which could rise to speeds of up to
seven or twelve knots. The new vessels
could rise to a maximum speed of 25 knots, and had twin turbo engines. It cost
the fund, on average, R600 00 per day to keep vessels at sea, and about R220
000 a day to keep it within the docks. National Treasury had been approached
and the DEAT, following the medium Term Expenditure Framework (MTEF) process,
would receive an additional R100 million over the next three years. The vessels
were required to remain at sea for 250 days, and could remain docked for up to
100 days. These vessels could also be hired out, to generate additional income.
The Department was thus continuously working towards balancing this priority. A
recently released AG report into the viability of these vessels concluded that
it was not worthwhile to retain these vessels if these had not been at sea for
250 days.
Dr Mayekiso said that the problem of poaching needed to be considered in broad
terms. It needed to be ascertained whether there was poaching in hake,
pilchards, pilchards, etc. This broad perspective needed to be held to ensure
that all marine species were protected and regulated. The Department had a
reasonable understanding of what the situation was regarding the poaching of
hake or pilchard industry.. In these fisheries there were few landing spots and
therefore inspectors have a reasonable handle on the situation. In the instance
of rock lobster for instance, it was difficult for the inspectors to cover all
landing sites of quota holders and therefore there. Due to the difficulties in
tracking, the department had been designing electronic means of surveillance to
cover the whole coast. Therefore, the department had been moving towards
electronic ways of observation.
Mr Adams recalled that, at the launch of one of these vessels, the Minister
indicated which of these were patrol the coastline, and was thus appropriately
equipped. A newspaper article reported that these vessels were not utilized for
this purpose due to a lack of funds. A oversight visit planned by the
Committee, had also been cancelled for the same reasons. If the Department
informed the Committee that there were not sufficient funds, and reports were
circulated within the media, it was the Departments duty to provide the correct
information.
Dr Mayekiso confirmed that reports abound that these vessels were not operational.
Given the financial constraints the Department reduced the time spent on sea
from 250 days to 175 days. Moreover, as these vessels were new and undervalued,
the shipyard builder was contacted immediately if a problem was detected. This
meant that the vessel could not be operated at that time. This was the case
with the installation of extra stabilizers on the vessel Saartjie Baardman. The
inactivity of vessels was very costly to the Department, but it was an
exaggeration to assume that vessels were not in use.
Regarding the cancellation of the study tour, Dr Mayekiso acknowledged the
miscommunication between the Department and Members. The Department wanted to
take the Committee on a on a proper patrol of the coastline, to ensure that
this was not merely a trip out to sea. This would not have been costly, as it
was part of the function of the vessels. He apologised for this
miscommunication. The department was very excited to have the members and were
planning two cruises for this year. These were research cruise and a compliance
cruise. These trips would be kept as short as possible.
Mr Van Rooyen expressed his concern over the maintenance cost for the vessels.
The costs per day were more in line with a Panamex size vessel on a wage
charter from the West coats to the East Coast. On what were these calculations
based. Were these costs not perhaps overestimated?
Mr Ismail responded that the costs outlined were for the total fleet,
consisting of eight vessels and were therefore not specific to one vessel. The
fund had five compliance vessels and three research vessels.
Ms M N Oliphant (ANC; Kwazulu Natal) said that the Department had indicated the
intention to transform the fishing industry and to encourage the development of
viable small fishing businesses. The DEAT said that these people needed to cash
fish and sell these goods to the public. Did the Department have a programme to
change these paper quotas to ensure that people have access and participate in
the fishing industry? How could such people advanced r assist in terms of
achieving the objectives of Black Economic Empowerment. If few quotas were
given to different people, the best option would be top allow them to become
part of the bigger picture. Different actors within the industry could be contacted
to devise means to develop the skills of people and to assist in greater
participation in the industry. In this way many more could become part of
successful businesses.
Ms Oliphant wondered whether the Department had a training programme in place
to assist people after being granted quotas rights. In Kwazulu-Natal in
Seculumbo in particular, there wee people that have these licences. Yet some of
these licensees were merely selling these fish on the street at a random price,
without knowing the market value of these commodities. For example, prawns were
sold for R25, while it would cost for less than five Restaurant owners were
buying these goods from poor people, consciously of the fact that they do not
know what the proper prices of these goods were. How would these people be
trained to ensure that they were on the same level as that of the businesses?
Dr Mayekiso continued that the Department had subsistence fisherman policy and
a small-scale fishing policy out for public comment. The Department would
consider these comments and advice on what should be done in these sectors in
order to run these effectively. The comments made by the member had been valid.
There would be a debate on whether one would want subsistence fishing to run on
a commercial basis and what the consequences of this development would the
consequences be of such a development. The department had not yet made a
decision, and would do so after considering the public comments. Extension
officers were located in the provinces with a high degree of subsistence
fishing (like Kwazulu Natal) and these officers were supposed to be liase with
communities.
The oyster industry had been restructured, in the Western Cape and had
attempted too restructure this industry in KwaZulu Natal. This was a very
difficult industry to restructure as restaurant owners and business owners had
possessed the rights historically. Yet, even though the Department had changed
this policy, and extended rights to those people who “’pick’’ these oysters;
these individuals were not asserting themselves in relation to restaurant
owners and the business people who do not have these permits. This could be a
trading issue and mentoring issue that needed to be addressed within the next
few years.
Mr van Rooyen also added that he had witnessed people between Mossel Bay and
George, harvesting wild oysters for a restaurant on the beach. One could buy
the oyster for R2.00 but would pay R10.00 in restaurants. People did not have
any idea of the prices of these items and therefore a high level of
exploitation. The recently introduced price system was not satisfactory.
Iceland experienced a similar problem in 1966, and then introduced a n
Individual Transferable Quota system. Had the department explored other avenues
of alternative quota systems? The mentioned system was also adopted by Nieu
Zealand and thus proved to be effective.
Dr Mayekiso responded that the department was currently examining two different
models. The ITQ model and a model through which one had vertical integration.
The ITQ system placed the quota system in simpler terms, and therefore the
minister set the standard for instance, one hundred tons that could be caught
per year. From this global amount the individual quotas would be calculated.
South Africa currently used the individual quota. Yet South Africa did not
allow a fully transferable individual quota. Thus the difference between this
model and the one applied in Iceland. Although a fully transferable quota made
good economic sense, in the South African sense a quota could only be mad
transferable when the minister approved such a transfer. A transfer needed to
be done in such a way that would realise the goals of transforming the fishing
industry. South Africa had a modified ITQ system.
Mr Watson wondered whether the migration of fish from the West Coast to the
East Coast could reverse if this was a natural migration. Had the number of
fish been reduced due to the abnormal harvesting?
Dr Mayekiso answered that the current migration was due to environmental
factors. This was also occurring in Namibia and could be described as a West
coast phenomenon. It was suspected that there was an intrusion of hot water
from Angola and the temperature of the water along the West coast was much
warmer. The fish was simply moving away from this. Although a reverse had
happened in the past, this may not occur in this instance, as this had been
caused by climate change. The Department would be starting a big study,
supported by the World Bank, to investigate whether a relationship existed
between the current fish migration and climate change.
Mr Watson said that the Department expected the fishermen to carry the cost of
installing the tracking system on their vehicles. Since these fishermen would
be the lawful permit holders, what deterrent was there for the poachers? Media
reports suggested that fishermen were forced to purchase a certain type of
tracking device. Why was this tracking system so expensive, while one supplier
monopolised the entire market. Struggling fishermen should not be paying these
exorbitant prices.
Mr Ismail explained that the problem with the vessel monitoring system was that
the department had internal towers that could track anywhere within the
country, but could only detect vessels to a certain nautical mile. As a result
tracking needed to occur via satellite. Once one made use of satellite
infrastructure the costs tended to increase. The costs of maintaining this
infrastructure were also high for the DEAT. The R80 000 was partially a
requirement in case of an emergency to detect these vessels. South Africa did not have the technology nor
the resources to develop such technology, and it therefore had to purchase this
product internationally. This company had the rights to the product and there
was no local supplier.
Mr Van Rooyen asked whether foreigners were also granted these quotas?
Dr Mayekiso answered that Taiwanese and Japanese fishermen had been fishing for
tuna in South African waters over the past 10 years. This had since been stopped since South
Africans needed to fill that void. However, South Africans had admitted that it
could only fish for tuna through joining joint ventures with foreigners.
Currently, some fishermen with official permits were in partnership with North
Korean fishing vessels.
Mr Van Rooyen wondered whether the solution to the impact of the migration of
fish were not the encouragement of subsistence fishing rather than commercial
fishing.
Dr Mayekiso confirmed that this was a very difficult issue to address. The Department
had developed the industry, on a commercial basis, currently a source of
employment for many. In this context, subsistence fishing would thus not be
viable. Fisheries had become a business all over the world and a lot of the
fish were now exported. There should be an accommodation of subsistence
fisheries and the department believed that subsistence and commercial
operations as well as recreational operations must be accommodated.
The Chairperson said that this issue needed further exploration, rather than
being dismissed without looking at the possibilities. The Committee was being
informed by the political challenges the country was faced with, especially the
level of poverty and unemployment
The Chairperson said that it was the first time the Marine Living Resources
Fund presented such a detailed report to the Committee. The Committee had been
eager to receive such detailed information for a very long time. The different questions and the particular
information the Department wanted to communicate with Members highlighted the
need for another meeting with the Department. These simplified explanations for
challenges highlighted by the Department needed to be simplified to ensure that
affected communities, such as the fishing communities, gained a cleared
understanding of the issues involved and the implications.
The meeting was adjourned.
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