Social Assistance Bill and Social Security Agency Bill: final mandates

Meeting report

SOCIAL SERVICES SELECT COMMITTEE
23 February 2004
SOCIAL ASSISTANCE BILL AND SOCIAL SECURITY AGENCY BILL: FINAL MANDATES

Chairperson: Ms L Jacobus (ANC)[Gauteng]

Documents handed out:
Explanatory Memorandum: Proposed Amendments to the Social Assistance Bill and the South African Social Security Agency Bill
Eastern Cape Report
Eastern Cape Final Mandate (awaited)
Free State Final Mandate (awaited)
Final mandates for KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Northern Cape, Gauteng and North West Province
Mpumalanga Final Mandates
Western Cape Final Mandate

Other relevant documents:
Social Assistance Bill [B51B-2003]
Social Assistance Bill [B51C-2003]
Social Assistance Bill [B51D-2003]
South African Social Security Agency Bill [B57A-2003]
South African Social Security Agency Bill [B57C-2003]
South African Social Security Agency Bill [B57D-2003]

SUMMARY
All the provinces submitted their final mandates, with the exception of Gauteng and North-West, whose final mandates would be submitted in the Plenary.

The following provinces supported the Social Assistance Bill with amendments: Eastern Cape, Free State, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape and Western Cape. These provinces, with the exception of KwaZulu-Natal, also supported the South African Social Security Agency Bill. These Bills would be tabled in the National Assembly for deliberation on 25 February 2004.

MINUTES
The Chair welcomed the Committee members, the delegation from the Department of Social Development, Treasury and State Law Advisors. She said the Committee members wished to ensure that the proposed amendments were facilitated as soon as possible and thereafter passed by both Houses of Parliament.

Proposed Amendments to the Social Assistance Bill
The Committee unanimously accepted the proposed amendments to the Bill.

Further Proposed Amendments to the Social Assistance Bill
Clause 1:
"Care dependency grant" and "Care-dependent child"
Mr D Plaatjies (National Treasury: Director Social Security) was of the view that the definition of "care dependency" was not totally in line with the provisions of Clause 7 and thus proposed that the definition contained in the Social Assistance Act be retained and the policy around this be re-examined.

"Social assistance"
Mr J Kruger (National Treasury: Chief Director) also raised a concern with regard to the definition and noted that this definition could create the wrong impression that a "social relief of distress" was a "social grant".

The Chair noted these concerns but thought they could be deferred for the attention of the incoming elected Parliament. As members of the NCOP, they had no authority to bind their provincial legislatures without specific mandates so any new proposed amendments would have to be negotiated there. As it was so difficult to convene these Legislatures, it would be some time before they take a decision. She thus proposed that the Department take up these matter with the incoming Parliament. The Committee would note this in its report to the House. The Committee agreed.

Final Mandates on the Social Assistance Bill
Eastern Cape
Ms N Kondlo (ANC)[Eastern Cape] said that notwithstanding that they supported the Bill as amended in principle, they had concerns which they wished the Committee to note.

The Chair responded that their concerns would be noted as part of additional amendments to the Bill and thus would be taken into account when the amended Bill come into consideration before the next Parliament.

Free State
Ms N Khunou (ANC)[Free State] said that her Provincial Legislature supported the Bill as amended.

Gauteng
The Chair noted that since the Gauteng Provincial Legislature would only convene on the 24 February to consider the Bill, they would submit their final mandate during the Plenary.

KwaZulu-Natal
The Chair saw that there was no-one representing the KwaZulu-Natal Provincial Legislature in the meeting to read their Final Mandate. However, it had been expressed that the province supported the Bill as amended.

Limpopo
Ms R Mashangoane (ANC)[Limpopo] said her Provincial Legislature supported the Bill as amended.

Mpumalanga
Ms M Themba (ANC)[Mpumalanga] noted that her Provincial Legislature supported the Bill as amended.

Northern Cape
The Chair, noting that there is no one representing the Northern Cape Provincial Legislature in the meeting, read out their final mandate. They supported the Bill as amended.

North West
The Chair noted that the Committee had not yet received a final mandate from the North West Provincial Legislature.

Western Cape
Mr F Adams (NNP)[Western Cape] noted that his Provincial Legislature fully supported the Bill as amended.

The Chair concluded that seven out of nine provinces supported the Bill. She then proceeded through the Bill amendments clause by clause, and then presented the Committee's report.

The Committee adopted both the Bill and the report as amended.

Proposed Amendments to the South African Social Security Agency Bill
The Committee unanimously accepted the proposed amendments to the Bill.

Further Proposed Amendments to the South African Social Security Agency Bill
Chapter 6: Transitional Provisions
Clause 24: Transfer of social assistance administration to Agency
The Chair noted that the reference to "members of executive councils of provinces" in Clause 24, line 36 should be changed into capital letters.

Mr Kruger accepted the Chair's ruling that no further additional amendments would be entertained at this late stage, but still raised some concerns regarding the effect of delegation's powers during the transitional period. The Department welcomed the Committee's proposal that the government move away from these voluntary agreements through delegation and introduce a new model. Under this new model, the agency's responsibility to administer and deliver grants would be done in terms of a statutory provision. However, a problem might arise with the decision taken by the High Court in 'Mashaba v The President and the Minister of Social Development'. In that case. the Court had held that the assignment of the bulk of social assistance to provinces was invalid. The danger with this decision was that the country might find itself without a legal framework to deal with the provisional arrangement if the Constitutional Court upheld this decision on 26 February 2004.

The Chair noted that the concerns would be included in the Committee report to the House. However, if due diligence was not afforded to legislation, then problems like this would always to crop up. As any legislation passed by Parliament had a tremendous impact, departments concerned should take up issues with the relevant political heads to avoid future embarrassments.

Final Mandates on the South African Social Security Agency Bill
Eastern Cape
Ms Kondlo said that notwithstanding that they supported the Bill as amended in principle, they had concerns which they wished the Committee to note. The Chair recorded these.

Free State
Ms Khunou noted that her Provincial Legislature supported the Bill as amended.

Gauteng
The Chair noted that since the Gauteng Provincial Legislature would only convene on the 24 February to consider the Bill, they would submit their final mandate during the Plenary.

KwaZulu-Natal
The Chair saw that there was no-one representing the KwaZulu-Natal Provincial Legislature in the meeting to read their Final Mandate. However, it had been expressed that the province did not support the Bill as amended.

Limpopo
Ms Mashangoane noted that her Provincial Legislature supported the Bill as amended.

Mpumalanga
Ms Themba noted that her Provincial Legislature supported the Bill as amended.

Northern Cape
The Chair, noting that there is no one representing the Northern Cape Provincial Legislature in the meeting, read out their final mandate. They supported the Bill as amended.

North-West
Mr J Tlhagale (UCDP)[North-West] noted that their Final Mandate would soon be submitted and he was not sure its content. The Chair said that as soon as it became available, he would send it to Members for the record.

Western Cape
Mr Adams noted that his Provincial Legislature fully supported the Bill as amended.

The Chair concluded that six out of nine provinces supported the Bill. She then proceeded through the Bill clause by clause and then the Committee's report.

The Committee adopted both the Bill and the report as amended.

The meeting was adjourned.