Provincial Commissioners of Correctional Services

Meeting report

CORRECTIONAL SERVICES PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE
17 November 1999
BRIEFING BY NINE PROVINCIAL COMMISSIONERS OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES

 

here for the presentation.

Questions
Ms Sosibo (ANC) wished to know how personnel absenteeism was being reduced.
Mr Ramashala explained that motivation was improving and with the province's high unemployment rate people were taking their jobs very seriously. Communications between personnel and management are also improving.

Ms Dlamini (ANC) commented that a stress management programme should be put in place because the high levels of overcrowding must be placing much pressure on personnel.
Mr Ramashala said that he must be honest and admit that nothing had been done regarding stress management. However he hoped that the Employment Assistance Programme (EAP) set up on 1 November would serve employees well.

Dr Jordan (ANC) wanted clarity on how self-sufficient in agricultural products the province is.
Mr Ramashala explained that those prisons with agricultural land were completely self sufficient and often supplied enough to provide for those prisons without land.

Mr Zondo (ANC) asked why the location of most prisons was rural and why large areas of the province did not have a prison.
Mr Ramashala explained that the location of prisons reflected the legacy of the past. The province had been part of the Transvaal, now separated, it had insufficient prisons of its own. However, as Venda had been an independent homeland, it did have a prison of its own.

Ms Sigabi (DP) asked whether any short term solutions were planned to deal with overcrowding problems whilst new buildings were awaited.
Mr Ramashala responded that the province was considering possible accommodation options in rural areas.

Dr Mzimela (UDM) wanted an explanation as to why the 3000 capacity Asset Procurement and Operating Partnership System (APOPS) prison proposed three years ago was still not under construction.
Mr Ramashala explained that problems between head office and the construction firm had arisen but, as these were now solved, construction would begin next year.

Gauteng
The presentation was given by Acting Provincial Commissioner, Mr Mgnetye. Click here for the presentation.

Questions
Mr Diale (ANC) wished to know how long unsentenced children must wait before they face trial and then how and where sentenced children are dealt with.
Mr Mgnetye said that on average it takes 131 days before unsentenced children are finalised within the system. Sentenced children are then dealt with in juvenile centres or isolated section of main prisons.

Mr Diale (ANC) pointed out that escapes had never been such a problem under the previous regime and so wished to know why they were now.
Mr Mokoena stated that the liberalisation of the nation has led to a lack of discipline in prisons but felt that this was a matter to be dealt with in more detail at a later date.
Mr Nxumalo (Acting National Commissioner) commented that escapes have been in decline since 1995 but, as it is accepted that they remain too high, decreasing them remains a priority.

Adv Schmidt (DP) wished to know whether schemes such as community supervision and electronic monitoring were still planned.
Mr Mgnetye explained that whilst electronic monitoring was not in operation, it was still being considered an option. Supervision schemes have begun and are currently breaking even. However he said that due to the huge increases in prison population new building would still be required.

Mr Bloem (ANC) enquired whether the relationships between management and personnel and different races were healthy and whether transformation was on track.
Mr Mgnetye said that there was no tension between management and personnel and no labour unrest has occurred. Cases of tension along race boundaries were small and isolated and easily dealt with. Transformation is on track.

Mr Durand (NNP) asked for confirmation of news reports that terminally ill prisoners, especially those with AIDS, would be released to aid the overcrowding situation. He felt it was a concern if AIDS victims were also sex offenders.
Mr Mgnetye only commented that to date no prisoners had been released on the basis of terminal illness.

Mpumalanga
The presentation was given by Provincial Commissioner, Mr M Buthelezi. Click here for the presentation.

Questions
Mr Fihla (ANC) wished to know why various personnel vacancies existed within the province.
Mr Buthelezi explained that it was common for vacancies to be filled by those within the system, leading to other positions falling vacant. Hopefully all positions will be filled soon.

Dr Mzimela (UDM) asked why there was a whole prison facility currently unused.
Mr Buthelezi explained that the building was only recently completed and the process of finding personnel is currently underway. Once done the facility will be opened.

Mr Fihla (ANC) said he had noted that the number of re-arrests of escapees was particularly low. Further he felt that often the type of prisoners escaping should be investigated because the escape of a serious offender or a leader of organised crime in some ways counted for the escape of several prisoners.
Mr Buthelezi felt that the issue of re-arrest statistics should be raised with SAPS. He did, however, say that Correctional Services and SAPS are working together to stop the escape of serious offenders.

Ms Dlamini (ANC) expressed the concern that HIV/AIDS is a problem too easily associated with illegal immigrants, it must be addressed as a problem that can affect any inmate.
Mr Buthelezi agreed that HIV/AIDS could affect anyone but explained that illegal immigrants with HIV/AIDS are a particular problem because they have no family to care for them.

North-West Province
The presentation was given by the Provincial Commissioner, Ms N Tseana.

Questions
Mr Mokoena (ANC) thought it problematic that health officials were not employed by correctional service but were appointed by the Department of Health. Without direct control over employees, accountability was difficult to ensure.
Mr Nxumalo responded that accountability was catered for through regular meetings between officials and heads of prisons and through a formal system of reporting.

Mr Fihla (ANC) wished to know whether being a female in a conservative field dominated by males was problematic.
Ms Tseana felt that this was a difficult question but explained that she felt confident in her position and had the full support of management.

Mr Bloem (ANC) wished to know what the problems were in the training of management.
Ms Tseana explained that with the acceleration of the transformation process many management level officials were under-skilled. Therefore much training is currently underway.

Mr Bloem (ANC) enquired as to response time of Public Works following complaints about infrastructure.
Both Ms Tseana and Mr Nxumalo explained that the day to day management of infrastructure is the responsibility of the area manager and it is only major problems that become the responsibility of Public Works. Major programmes do take time and for these reason become part of a province's five year plan.

Kwa-Zulu Natal
The presentation was given by the Provincial Commissioner, Mr C Jordaan. Click here for the presentation.

Questions
Ms Dlamini (ANC) required as to the current status of a Ms Tutu, who had worked in the province's human resources department. It appears after being formally dismissed, Ms Tutu was reinstated by the CCMA. However she is yet to return to work.
Mr Jordaan explained that between her dismissal and her reinstatement Ms Tutu's previous post was filled. By removing the current incumbent the province would face more problems. Therefore Ms Tutu has been reinstated financially and negotiations are underway to find her a suitable position.

Ms Dlamini (ANC) asked how security had improved following the incidents at Pietermaritzburg and Empangeni.
Mr Jordaan stated that the investigation in to the incidents is in its final stages and a report will soon be finalised. Several additional security measures have already been put in place most notably the toughening up of Pietermaritzburg's perimeters.

Mr Durand (NNP) pointed out that although the number of escapes had been on the decrease, numbers had increased this year.
Mr Jordaan put this down to two group escapes that have occurred - 22 inmates escaped on 18 September and 31 on 16 October.

Mr Durand (NNP) enquired in to the problems of morale, discipline, friction and labour unrest amongst staff. He pointed out that personnel targets are not being met and wondered whether tribalism might be a source of the problems.
Mr Jordaan explained that improving morale is a focus area and a commitment has been made to go forward. He was unsure whether problems could be related to tribalism.

Mr Durand (NNP) also pointed out the high levels of youth committing serious crime in Kwa-Zulu Natal and wondered whether there were any specific programmes for the youth once in prison.
Mr Jordaan said that several programmes have been set up and all are producing good results.

Dr Mzimela (UDM) asked whether the province's new prisons will open on schedule.
Mr Jordaan said that there were no unresolved issues regarding the new Pietermaritzburg prison so it was running to time. Empangeni is now back on track following the resolution of the land issue there.

Mr Bloem (ANC) said that following visits to the province it was clear that both discipline and respect have collapsed within prisons.
Mr Jordaan stated that it was accepted that Empangeni and Pietersmaritzburg were trouble spots and had therefore become the subject of much focus. The redeployment of problematic staff members has already begun.

Free State
The presentation was given by the Provincial Commissioner, Mr W Damons. Click here for the presentation.

Northern Cape
The presentation was given by the Provincial Commissioner Mr Khambule. Click here for the presentation.

Questions
Mr Bloem (ANC) asked what is being done to deal with the transport problems faced by personnel who live far from prisons.
Mr Nxumalo responded that housing is provided near to prisons. If none is available then transport is provided until provincial funds are fully utilised. If more requests are then made the only option is to try to transfer personnel to the prison nearest to their home.

Eastern Cape
The presentation was given by the Provincial Commissioner, Mr Z Modise. Click here for the presentation.

Questions
Dr Mzimela (UDM) requested a written reply to a list of complaints sent to him by a warder at St Albans Prison.
Mr Modise agreed to the request.

Mr Booi (ANC) asked why ten prisons have been closed in the Eastern Cape when overcrowding pressures seem so high.
Mr Nxumalo explained that the ten prisoners were located in the former Ciskei and Transkei and were in urgent need of large scale renovation. The high pressures in the Eastern Cape are to some extent due to these closures.

Mr Fihla (ANC) wondered whether it would make sense for prisoners to face trial within prison due to the high levels of escape in transit to court.
Mr Modise said that this trend of escape had been noted and a court was currently being set up at St Albans Prison.

Western Cape
The presentation was given by Provincial Commissioner, Mr S Korabie. Click here for the presentation.

Questions
Ms Dlamini (ANC) requested a written reply on whether there was much upward mobility of women within management.
Mr Korabie agreed to the request.

Mr Diale (ANC) wished to know how level of escapes had been decreased.
Mr Korabie explained that it was a question of how you managed escapes. The Western Cape had a policy of zero tolerance, meaning that area managers and senior prison officials were held to account every time an escape occurred. He stressed that junior officials alone could not be held responsible for escapes as often they were merely the victims of negligence by senior officials.

Mr Durand (NNP) commented on how the Western Cape is a gang-infested province and wondered what impact this is having on prisons.
Mr Korabie said that the attitude of personnel in the Western Cape is crucial to dealing with gangsters. He felt that good discipline and effective management would ensure that gangsters were controlled within prisons. He then stressed that prisons reflect the society outside them and this society must take responsibility for its problems, prisons alone are not the only solutions.

The Chairperson said that it is hoped that this meeting will be the first of many and also that meetings with individual commissioners and visits to their provinces will occur. The meeting was concluded.